Skywest v2.0
04-27-2016, 06:52 AM
#931
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,042
I think both are issues.
As pointed out before pay needs to be in line with productivity and our productivity only changes with equipment size. That ultimately drives the acceptable average unit cost.
Wage distribution among the pilot group and longevity pay creates is own sets of problems because it damns an airline to constantly grow or at least to add a sufficient number of bodies at the bottom to keep the average unit cost down. At the end, management doesn't care how the money is distributed but only that the average unit cost are low enough. And that's a function of wage distribution across the pilot group, what we are paid on (credit vs. block) and how many hours they can squeeze out (90+) without increasing staffing and increasing training expenses.
The issue with seniority is that it isn't merit based.
Nobody graduate as a Valedictorian from HighSchool or College because you have spend the most amount of time there. People don't get management positions because they have the most seniority with a company. And that doesn't guarantee good management either. But the point is, it is merit based pretty much anywhere else.
Making captain is great but all it means is that you stuck around long enough for your number to come up. That doesn't make you a bad captain but it also doesn't mean you are a good captain. All it means you stuck around long enough.
I believe that is the primary reason that majors are so much into college degrees', community involvement, leadership etc. Because they are looking for merit based indicators of success than purely seniority based indicators.
Either way, the system will not change but it may explain some of the dynamics in the market place.
As pointed out before pay needs to be in line with productivity and our productivity only changes with equipment size. That ultimately drives the acceptable average unit cost.
Wage distribution among the pilot group and longevity pay creates is own sets of problems because it damns an airline to constantly grow or at least to add a sufficient number of bodies at the bottom to keep the average unit cost down. At the end, management doesn't care how the money is distributed but only that the average unit cost are low enough. And that's a function of wage distribution across the pilot group, what we are paid on (credit vs. block) and how many hours they can squeeze out (90+) without increasing staffing and increasing training expenses.
The issue with seniority is that it isn't merit based.
Nobody graduate as a Valedictorian from HighSchool or College because you have spend the most amount of time there. People don't get management positions because they have the most seniority with a company. And that doesn't guarantee good management either. But the point is, it is merit based pretty much anywhere else.
Making captain is great but all it means is that you stuck around long enough for your number to come up. That doesn't make you a bad captain but it also doesn't mean you are a good captain. All it means you stuck around long enough.
I believe that is the primary reason that majors are so much into college degrees', community involvement, leadership etc. Because they are looking for merit based indicators of success than purely seniority based indicators.
Either way, the system will not change but it may explain some of the dynamics in the market place.
Seniority is a horrible way to rank pilots...the problem is that it's better than any other scheme anyone has ever come with up.
You can't readily measure merit in a line pilot. Tried-and-failed schemes...
Just leave it up to the boss: The brown-nosers gets the upgrade and Christmas off.
On-time or other operational performance: The guy who takes shortcuts (and sacrifices safety margins) gets ahead.
Sim/Training Performance: Everybody who's been around longer than a couple years knows that this can be pretty subjective. It's decent at identifying the bottom 5% who need extra help/attention but a very bad way of ranking competent pilots. Again it would turn into who's buddies with which instructor/evaluator. Or you could assign merit based on online training bulletin scores
Seniority is the fairest system so far in that it is...
1) Entirely predictable, you know where you stand
2) Essentially tamper-proof, in that nobody can change your seniority order on a whim.
It has some clear drawbacks, but everybody going in knows the score, that you're stuck on the escalator. If you want a more dynamic, competitive environment, join the military (a lot of us do...).
04-27-2016, 07:00 AM
#932
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 472
Feel free to enlighten me. I am happy to learn from the folks in the know.
04-27-2016, 07:06 AM
#933
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
that's exactly it. Most CS guys I've talked to were very accommodating. Some older ladies not so much. but yea, just keep calling.
04-27-2016, 07:10 AM
#934
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 472
Also very true. And hence I believe it will never change.
It is like democracy - not perfect but better than the alternatives.
But as you point out the military has a different approach that seems to work as well (at least it appears that way). I also understand that this is a somewhat "contrarian" view that goes against mainstream "pay your dues" mentality.
But it may still make sense in thinking true root causes and drivers as we are making a career at a regional or try to position ourselves for the next step. Just waiting in the "escalator" to make it to the majors may not be that fool proof after all.
Last edited by N1234; 04-27-2016 at 07:23 AM.
04-27-2016, 08:50 AM
#935
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 235
What do you want?
A team (weekday business hours) is more likely to approve something complicated that is mutually beneficial. More difficult to trick.
B Team (sundays and weird hours) defaults to deny everything and strictly adheres to the most basic interpretation of policy. Will do whatever the software tells them. Less likely to know more arcane policy. Hard to get reasonable things approved, but easier to streamroll.
CS is not The Borg, and everyone you talk to is an individual. The above are just anecdotal trends I've noticed. YMMV.
A team (weekday business hours) is more likely to approve something complicated that is mutually beneficial. More difficult to trick.
B Team (sundays and weird hours) defaults to deny everything and strictly adheres to the most basic interpretation of policy. Will do whatever the software tells them. Less likely to know more arcane policy. Hard to get reasonable things approved, but easier to streamroll.
CS is not The Borg, and everyone you talk to is an individual. The above are just anecdotal trends I've noticed. YMMV.
04-28-2016, 07:18 AM
#936
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: I pilot
Posts: 2,049
DVR shows a large growth in SEA, starting 1 September... Delta E175 base?
04-28-2016, 02:24 PM
#939
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 261
Apparently 5 more 175s are being added in the Alaska system per the Q1 press release.
04-28-2016, 03:18 PM
#940
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,238
This only brings it to 33 per seat. With 20 AS 175's and 19 DL i would guess SEA would maybe be 25-30~ AC base. Thats 8 per seat on the 175.. Thats 200-240ish~ Per seat.. SEA has big growth ahead. There is a base meeting coming up addressing this.. Even PHX is growing... But looking over the next year SKY takes 50+175's. For a total of 104 thats (1600 pilots~) right now there are only 835 ERJ pilots on the list.....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
