Skywest v2.0
04-23-2016, 07:44 PM
#882
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 657
One former SAPA president was very upfront with our pilot group. The company tried to limit his communication and our former VP of FO asked that all communication to the pilots go through him to be approved before it was sent to the pilots. Our SAPA President refused and lost access to send emails from the company email to the pilot group.
So, a new pilot on property for one day gets to vote? That definitely could favor the company during a hiring boom. Get the newbies to vote in a crappy deal for the senior pilots. Oh boy!
If that's true who the heck made up that policy? DUMB.
I must say, the internal politics at your place seem horrible.
You guys need a union, this SAPA thing doesn't sound like it works for the pilots.
04-23-2016, 07:44 PM
#883
Dumb Pilot
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: Broke
Posts: 784
My opinion only, our pilot group is apathetic. One former SAPA president was very upfront with our pilot group. The company tried to limit his communication and our former VP of FO asked that all communication to the pilots go through him to be approved before it was sent to the pilots. Our SAPA President refused and lost access to send emails from the company email to the pilot group.
The only time you will see a push on elections is when SAPA is worried about someone running that may rock the boat. Most of our rep elections are very low turnout because people realize that nothing can get done and eventually all our good SAPA reps get burned out and quit the company or being a rep. I personally feel there are several things our current SAPA Pres and EB have done things that should lead to a recall. Changing the ability to have new hires vote (during a pay package vote that gave them a substantial raise), censoring our forums, and trying to give the company the ability to reflow our pilots via our EFB are just a couple that come to mind. As you pointed out with the above examples, you don't dare speak up for fear of retaliation. In fact, we had a recent SAPA rep that was very critical of the company and called them and SAPA out regularly. He was labeled as a troublemaker and subsequently fired.
Inc wanted to get ASA and XJT combined, but surprisingly XJT didn't want to give up the good parts of their contract. From my source in SGU, they simply said fine, we just won't give them anymore flying. I don't think they are trying to get XJT out of business but they sure as seem like they would rather give the flying to the side of the house that doesn't have work rule protections. We get paid on some made up number called credit if we come in under block, they can award us 90+ hours each month with minimum days off and SGU uses their creative version of reflow to extend us into days off because it is still the original flight number. There are some good things about SW like the crews and the fact that BB is not the President of our company. But there is an ugly side that the kool aid drinkers refuse to acknowledge.
The simple fact is that INC is giving the flying to the cheap side of the house. ASA/XJT is being whipsawed by someone under their same INC umbrella. There is a reason that INC fought so hard against integrating our pilot groups.
The only time you will see a push on elections is when SAPA is worried about someone running that may rock the boat. Most of our rep elections are very low turnout because people realize that nothing can get done and eventually all our good SAPA reps get burned out and quit the company or being a rep. I personally feel there are several things our current SAPA Pres and EB have done things that should lead to a recall. Changing the ability to have new hires vote (during a pay package vote that gave them a substantial raise), censoring our forums, and trying to give the company the ability to reflow our pilots via our EFB are just a couple that come to mind. As you pointed out with the above examples, you don't dare speak up for fear of retaliation. In fact, we had a recent SAPA rep that was very critical of the company and called them and SAPA out regularly. He was labeled as a troublemaker and subsequently fired.
Inc wanted to get ASA and XJT combined, but surprisingly XJT didn't want to give up the good parts of their contract. From my source in SGU, they simply said fine, we just won't give them anymore flying. I don't think they are trying to get XJT out of business but they sure as seem like they would rather give the flying to the side of the house that doesn't have work rule protections. We get paid on some made up number called credit if we come in under block, they can award us 90+ hours each month with minimum days off and SGU uses their creative version of reflow to extend us into days off because it is still the original flight number. There are some good things about SW like the crews and the fact that BB is not the President of our company. But there is an ugly side that the kool aid drinkers refuse to acknowledge.
The simple fact is that INC is giving the flying to the cheap side of the house. ASA/XJT is being whipsawed by someone under their same INC umbrella. There is a reason that INC fought so hard against integrating our pilot groups.
Xjt is not being whipsawed against OO. You are being whipsawed against Mesa, gojets, and Republic. But if it makes you feel good you can pretend there are only 2 regionals.
ALPA hasn't done anything good for any regional and until they turn the representation around it's a lost cause. You can say each airline is only as strong as its MEC, but until ALPA starts acting like a real Union and national leads the regionals to stop taking concessions it is broken.
04-23-2016, 07:49 PM
#884
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 657
ALPA hasn't done anything good for any regional and until they turn the representation around it's a lost cause. You can say each airline is only as strong as its MEC, but until ALPA starts acting like a real Union and national leads the regionals to stop taking concessions it is broken.
Hmmm, maybe you should tell that to the SAPA pilot person who allegedly got fired for sticking their neck out on the pilot's behalf.
04-23-2016, 09:02 PM
#886
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 613
Hahahah really? That sounds like third grade behavior on the company's part. Good god, that's worse than MESA was in the old days. Company really wants to control the message I guess.
Controlling the message is SGU's main objective.
So SAPA protects the company in some way that they don't want someone rocking the boat? What do you mean by rocking the boat?
They don't want anyone in SAPA who will rally the troops or get anyone behind a cause. Or that would have the audacity to question the company and make sure that policies put in place do not negatively effect ALL pilots. (yes reserve pilots are humans too, despite the way they are treated)
Currently we have senior pilots that are being bypassed into the E175 while we continue to hire new pilots into the plane and people junior to these pilots are being transferred into their base. Apparently, our EB is having serious discussions with management. (I imagine these conversations being like: "SAPA - We are really mad you are doing this. SGU - Okay" That is if they actually have time to meet with SAPA and don't cancel the meetings.) But we have no communication to our group about what's going on. IMO we should be letting the entire pilot group know what is going on and how the company is blatently violating seniority. But all our reps need to sign a letter saying they won't use the company email to send communications out that is critical of the company if they want to have access to our email system. We get nothing but crickets from our EB. We used to get an email to our entire pilot group about voting results in each region. Now we don't hear anything about elections because apparently if you aren't in that region voting, it doesn't really pertain to you.
New hires got to vote too? WHAT? Uh... I thought you would get to vote AFTER you were off probation which is usually one year.
So, a new pilot on property for one day gets to vote? That definitely could favor the company during a hiring boom. Get the newbies to vote in a crappy deal for the senior pilots. Oh boy!
If that's true who the heck made up that policy? DUMB.
It used to be that you had to be off IOE or something. When I first started, I wasn't able to vote in the pay package because I was still on probation. I'm not sure when it changed, but this last vote was geared heavy towards new hires. The vote wasn't close enough to matter but I feel it would have been more of a representation of the pilot group had they not voted. There were some that voted no, but I can't imagine too many saying "No thanks, I don't want an 18% raise"
They fired a SAPA person because they were critical? The company labeled them a trouble maker and retaliated against them? Whoa, that's so illegal. I'd assume that the SAPA group stood in the way of the firing and the SAPA rep got their job back because that sounds very, very wrong. Good for the person standing up to the company. Bad if your pilot group did nothing for you.
I must say, the internal politics at your place seem horrible. You guys need a union, this SAPA thing doesn't sound like it works for the pilots.
We have no contract. We are an at will pilot group. You could literally be fired for anything. If you have enough money like DD or the pilot you mentioned before, you can take the company to court using your own money. If not, you are SOL. We do have a disciplinary board, but that is ran by our current SAPA President. So if you are critical of SAPA and the company, I don't think you would really have a lot of help in the review. It isn't known what he did, but I'm sure there was some other reason given behind the departure other than "you are critical of the company and SAPA". Again, this is all just my opinion. I am sure there are those out there with a different view.
Controlling the message is SGU's main objective.
So SAPA protects the company in some way that they don't want someone rocking the boat? What do you mean by rocking the boat?
They don't want anyone in SAPA who will rally the troops or get anyone behind a cause. Or that would have the audacity to question the company and make sure that policies put in place do not negatively effect ALL pilots. (yes reserve pilots are humans too, despite the way they are treated)
Currently we have senior pilots that are being bypassed into the E175 while we continue to hire new pilots into the plane and people junior to these pilots are being transferred into their base. Apparently, our EB is having serious discussions with management. (I imagine these conversations being like: "SAPA - We are really mad you are doing this. SGU - Okay" That is if they actually have time to meet with SAPA and don't cancel the meetings.) But we have no communication to our group about what's going on. IMO we should be letting the entire pilot group know what is going on and how the company is blatently violating seniority. But all our reps need to sign a letter saying they won't use the company email to send communications out that is critical of the company if they want to have access to our email system. We get nothing but crickets from our EB. We used to get an email to our entire pilot group about voting results in each region. Now we don't hear anything about elections because apparently if you aren't in that region voting, it doesn't really pertain to you.
New hires got to vote too? WHAT? Uh... I thought you would get to vote AFTER you were off probation which is usually one year.
So, a new pilot on property for one day gets to vote? That definitely could favor the company during a hiring boom. Get the newbies to vote in a crappy deal for the senior pilots. Oh boy!
If that's true who the heck made up that policy? DUMB.
It used to be that you had to be off IOE or something. When I first started, I wasn't able to vote in the pay package because I was still on probation. I'm not sure when it changed, but this last vote was geared heavy towards new hires. The vote wasn't close enough to matter but I feel it would have been more of a representation of the pilot group had they not voted. There were some that voted no, but I can't imagine too many saying "No thanks, I don't want an 18% raise"
They fired a SAPA person because they were critical? The company labeled them a trouble maker and retaliated against them? Whoa, that's so illegal. I'd assume that the SAPA group stood in the way of the firing and the SAPA rep got their job back because that sounds very, very wrong. Good for the person standing up to the company. Bad if your pilot group did nothing for you.
I must say, the internal politics at your place seem horrible.
You guys need a union, this SAPA thing doesn't sound like it works for the pilots.We have no contract. We are an at will pilot group. You could literally be fired for anything. If you have enough money like DD or the pilot you mentioned before, you can take the company to court using your own money. If not, you are SOL. We do have a disciplinary board, but that is ran by our current SAPA President. So if you are critical of SAPA and the company, I don't think you would really have a lot of help in the review. It isn't known what he did, but I'm sure there was some other reason given behind the departure other than "you are critical of the company and SAPA". Again, this is all just my opinion. I am sure there are those out there with a different view.
Xjt is not being whipsawed against OO. You are being whipsawed against Mesa, gojets, and Republic. But if it makes you feel good you can pretend there are only 2 regionals.
ALPA hasn't done anything good for any regional and until they turn the representation around it's a lost cause. You can say each airline is only as strong as its MEC, but until ALPA starts acting like a real Union and national leads the regionals to stop taking concessions it is broken.
ALPA hasn't done anything good for any regional and until they turn the representation around it's a lost cause. You can say each airline is only as strong as its MEC, but until ALPA starts acting like a real Union and national leads the regionals to stop taking concessions it is broken.
GoJet bases - ORD, RDU, STL and DEN
Republic bases - DCA, LGA, MCI, ORD, SDF, CMH, PIT, JFK, PHL, IND, MIA, EWR (Also currently going through bankruptcy)
XJT bases - DFW, DTW, EWR, IAH, ORD, ATL, CLE
I have went ahead and highlighted the airlines above with bases where we are currently getting our extra flying from. What is it our scheduling liaison keeps saying? We are sorry for all the deadheads to and from DTW and ATL that is making our trips inefficent but we are adding flying that needs to be covered by our partners? If only we had another airline under INC's umbrella that had pilots there to fly these extra routes. The flying is being given to the cheaper pilot group by INC. XJT has a ratio of reserves to line holders that is in their contract. We don't. How many reserves have we had in MSP over the past couple months? What base is being used to cover this extra flying?
I'm not saying ALPA is the answer. I'm just saying we don't have a contract or CBA that can be legally defended because SAPA can't sue INC because SAPA is payed for by the company. And until we decided that 2% of our salary is worth these protections, we will continually be taken advantage of by the company. Again, JMO.
04-23-2016, 09:02 PM
#887
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
The number of "we are just a regional" "go to a major if you want better pay" "we should take what we can get" comments I heard...
I'm still friends with many of the FAs I used to work with and they all know me as "the guy who wouldn't shut up about the pay package on social media." Then again...our FAs also make 18 an hour and turn down a pay raise for a free coat...
04-24-2016, 05:48 AM
#889
Dumb Pilot
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: Broke
Posts: 784
So you're saying MP was fired for standing up for the pilot group? Please inform me and the other 1500 pilots that have asked about details.
04-24-2016, 05:55 AM
#890
Freight Dog...Wooof!
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Skywest is very reactive and not very proactive with its pilot group. When the hiring team started having issues finding pilots they raised first year pay in response and fired the hiring team so they could hire more without the cumbersome need for qualified pilots getting in the way.
However at the same time increased flying hours, decreased the trip quality, increased TDYs and out of base flying. Many pilots bid realistically on PBS but end up with 75% or more of the month with CN pairings they did not want. Commuters dont get commutable trips because the number of pilots are so low to carry the flying they have to ignore all the bid parameters. So while they react to the slow hiring, they ignore the pilots on property until we are losing 50+ month. I suspect that once the bleed from the middle and top get to 100/month there will be a reaction but it will be too little, too late.
I am leaving for this reason.
However at the same time increased flying hours, decreased the trip quality, increased TDYs and out of base flying. Many pilots bid realistically on PBS but end up with 75% or more of the month with CN pairings they did not want. Commuters dont get commutable trips because the number of pilots are so low to carry the flying they have to ignore all the bid parameters. So while they react to the slow hiring, they ignore the pilots on property until we are losing 50+ month. I suspect that once the bleed from the middle and top get to 100/month there will be a reaction but it will be too little, too late.
I am leaving for this reason.
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