Skywest v2.0
04-24-2017, 06:58 AM
#6991
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 20
It can be "counted" for currency and aeronautical experience, and the FAA may even let you log it.
But I would recommend just keeping it in the sim column. Most employers will not go for sim logged as TT, ME, etc, or perhaps understand it, and it will make your logbook math hard for them to figure out. Some interviewers might consider that "aggressive logging", ie attempted fraud.
Log it in the sim column only, and you can add a note that it's level D or whatever. You do not need 1500 hours total time for an ATP, you need 1475 plus 25 hours sim.
The FARs also allow you to log sole manipulator TPIC as a regional FO, but that would not go over well at a major airline interview. Log conservatively, and follow customary practice for professional pilots.
But I would recommend just keeping it in the sim column. Most employers will not go for sim logged as TT, ME, etc, or perhaps understand it, and it will make your logbook math hard for them to figure out. Some interviewers might consider that "aggressive logging", ie attempted fraud.
Log it in the sim column only, and you can add a note that it's level D or whatever. You do not need 1500 hours total time for an ATP, you need 1475 plus 25 hours sim.
The FARs also allow you to log sole manipulator TPIC as a regional FO, but that would not go over well at a major airline interview. Log conservatively, and follow customary practice for professional pilots.
04-24-2017, 08:17 AM
#6992
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: LAX ER
Posts: 1,606
It can be "counted" for currency and aeronautical experience, and the FAA may even let you log it.
But I would recommend just keeping it in the sim column. Most employers will not go for sim logged as TT, ME, etc, or perhaps understand it, and it will make your logbook math hard for them to figure out. Some interviewers might consider that "aggressive logging", ie attempted fraud.
Log it in the sim column only, and you can add a note that it's level D or whatever. You do not need 1500 hours total time for an ATP, you need 1475 plus 25 hours sim.
The FARs also allow you to log sole manipulator TPIC as a regional FO, but that would not go over well at a major airline interview. Log conservatively, and follow customary practice for professional pilots.
But I would recommend just keeping it in the sim column. Most employers will not go for sim logged as TT, ME, etc, or perhaps understand it, and it will make your logbook math hard for them to figure out. Some interviewers might consider that "aggressive logging", ie attempted fraud.
Log it in the sim column only, and you can add a note that it's level D or whatever. You do not need 1500 hours total time for an ATP, you need 1475 plus 25 hours sim.
The FARs also allow you to log sole manipulator TPIC as a regional FO, but that would not go over well at a major airline interview. Log conservatively, and follow customary practice for professional pilots.
Seriously, how dramatic are we making such a simple question. A simple explanation to them would go over fine. We are talking about 25-40 hours not hundreds of hours. You can always revise your application/resume with real total time and explain the difference from a checkride. Stop making employers sound like evil enemies just lurking your logbook to throw you to the FSDO. Airlines take about less than 5 minutes going through them anyways.
If you need it in the TT column, it's perfectly fine to do so is the point. Is it logical? Maybe not. Why is this being discussed like it's a court room? Literally the training department tells you that's how they want you to log it.
04-24-2017, 10:02 AM
#6993
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
What employer would consider your 25 hours logged of sim time for your ATP "aggressive logging and fraud"???
Seriously, how dramatic are we making such a simple question. A simple explanation to them would go over fine. We are talking about 25-40 hours not hundreds of hours. You can always revise your application/resume with real total time and explain the difference from a checkride. Stop making employers sound like evil enemies just lurking your logbook to throw you to the FSDO. Airlines take about less than 5 minutes going through them anyways.
If you need it in the TT column, it's perfectly fine to do so is the point. Is it logical? Maybe not. Why is this being discussed like it's a court room? Literally the training department tells you that's how they want you to log it.
Seriously, how dramatic are we making such a simple question. A simple explanation to them would go over fine. We are talking about 25-40 hours not hundreds of hours. You can always revise your application/resume with real total time and explain the difference from a checkride. Stop making employers sound like evil enemies just lurking your logbook to throw you to the FSDO. Airlines take about less than 5 minutes going through them anyways.
If you need it in the TT column, it's perfectly fine to do so is the point. Is it logical? Maybe not. Why is this being discussed like it's a court room? Literally the training department tells you that's how they want you to log it.
But logbooks are forever, and majors (particularly some legacies) are known to be very "detail oriented" in this regard.
But it's a free country, your logbook, and your career. Suit yourself. You don't have to comply with established custom in the airline industry, you can establish your own trends.
04-24-2017, 02:08 PM
#6994
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,614
What employer would consider your 25 hours logged of sim time for your ATP "aggressive logging and fraud"???
Seriously, how dramatic are we making such a simple question. A simple explanation to them would go over fine. We are talking about 25-40 hours not hundreds of hours. You can always revise your application/resume with real total time and explain the difference from a checkride. Stop making employers sound like evil enemies just lurking your logbook to throw you to the FSDO. Airlines take about less than 5 minutes going through them anyways.
If you need it in the TT column, it's perfectly fine to do so is the point. Is it logical? Maybe not. Why is this being discussed like it's a court room? Literally the training department tells you that's how they want you to log it.
Seriously, how dramatic are we making such a simple question. A simple explanation to them would go over fine. We are talking about 25-40 hours not hundreds of hours. You can always revise your application/resume with real total time and explain the difference from a checkride. Stop making employers sound like evil enemies just lurking your logbook to throw you to the FSDO. Airlines take about less than 5 minutes going through them anyways.
If you need it in the TT column, it's perfectly fine to do so is the point. Is it logical? Maybe not. Why is this being discussed like it's a court room? Literally the training department tells you that's how they want you to log it.
04-24-2017, 07:22 PM
#6995
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 118
Thanks for the replies and sorry if I caused a little firestorm. Afterwards, the instructor told us to log it as sim and ME only and he did not sign it. He also said we can't log the approaches because we are not type rated yet (which is odd because I could log Redbird twin approaches before I had my multi rating).
I can't say enough good things about the CTP sim training by SKW. We got to demo concepts and experience situations that are not covered by sim training and the instructor was open to setting up past accident scenarios. Both the classroom and the sim instructors were fantastic.
I can't say enough good things about the CTP sim training by SKW. We got to demo concepts and experience situations that are not covered by sim training and the instructor was open to setting up past accident scenarios. Both the classroom and the sim instructors were fantastic.
04-24-2017, 10:12 PM
#6996
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: LAX ER
Posts: 1,606
If you think that a legacy is going to spend less than 5 minutes looking over your logs you might have a few surprises in the future. Rick is giving good advice. You are new to the game. You may want to slow your roll a little. Just because someone at a regional told you to do something doesn't make it a good idea for your future.
Can anyone on this forum just accept maybe someone has a different opinion than theirs without making a personal remark? I generally get along with everyone here. Sounds like I ruffled some feathers just saying you can log it? Mainline apps will have you clarify the difference anyways.
04-24-2017, 10:23 PM
#6997
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: LAX ER
Posts: 1,606
You are correct for regionals, they don't give a crap, some would probably rather you pencil whip your book if that will get you to class faster.
But logbooks are forever, and majors (particularly some legacies) are known to be very "detail oriented" in this regard.
But it's a free country, your logbook, and your career. Suit yourself. You don't have to comply with established custom in the airline industry, you can establish your own trends.
But logbooks are forever, and majors (particularly some legacies) are known to be very "detail oriented" in this regard.
But it's a free country, your logbook, and your career. Suit yourself. You don't have to comply with established custom in the airline industry, you can establish your own trends.
Sorry to go against the grain. I'm all for the professional image but if the damage is done now. From my experience of mainline apps it doesn't look like it should be a problem if you put it correctly in there.
04-24-2017, 11:16 PM
#6998
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
I definitely agree. Unfortunately, some of my logbook was pretty sloppy when I first started. I didn't really view it as a professionalism item, just something cool to log flight time. I can't really go back and fix the colors, white out and terrible handwriting now. Which is why I personally will be printing mine because that's the most professional thing I can do at this point. I have no problems explaining that and from my past it hasn't rattled any employers yet. I was just playing devils advocate, I guess. Lots of there online logging it that way because most instructors tell you to do so at flight safety. As well as many people getting hired below mins counting on that sim total time.
Sorry to go against the grain. I'm all for the professional image but if the damage is done now. From my experience of mainline apps it doesn't look like it should be a problem if you put it correctly in there.
Sorry to go against the grain. I'm all for the professional image but if the damage is done now. From my experience of mainline apps it doesn't look like it should be a problem if you put it correctly in there.
04-25-2017, 12:25 AM
#6999
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 261
At some point down the road he/she will reach competitive minimums, so why not already have the application complete. Being able to show you've had your application in and have been updating it on a regular basis since starting in the 121 world can mean a lot.
Who ****ed in your cheerios dude?
04-25-2017, 04:09 AM
#7000
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 443
I hate to be the bearer of bad news for you, but there are a number of relatively junior FOs moving on to the majors with no military or TPIC. The only way you can guarantee you won't get a call is if you don't your apps in.
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