Originally Posted by Jvw700

Correct! Completely irrelevant. Many seem to believe that all their wildest dreams will come true once ALPA is on property... Best plan is to simply move up to a career carrier that actually has (and can afford) what people want.

Originally Posted by WesternSkies

Agreed. At this point I'd campaign heavily against ALPA at this regional (or any regional).

Originally Posted by disillusioned

I personally don't feel all my wildest dreams will come true. I would just settle for not sliding backwards. The longer we go without some type of true contract and union, the more stuff we will have to fight to get back. Our current and previous EB can't give away QOL items to the company fast enough and get nothing in return. You say concessionary contracts but at least they have it in black and white what they are losing. We just have a slow bleed of items and just change our policies to match what the company wants.

The fact that people are still going to Republic shows that some people will work anywhere. But it's on the horizon that eventually regionals will have to sweeten the pot to get people in the door. Pay rates are first and it is good news that you don't have to be willing to work for $22,000 your first year. But there is only so much each company can do since it has a contract with the major. I really don't blame SW for screwing us over with credit vs block and horrible vacation accrual. We are the ones that put up with it.

Eventually they will realize there are not enough qualified pilots out there to bring on first year pay and keep up with attrition. Then they will start to work on keeping pilots. But I feel it will be like their hiring; too little, too late.

Originally Posted by Squallrider

I don't think you could be far worse off than what ExpressJet is, so Im betting there are more than few people that wouldnt have minded seeing what life would be like without Alpa. SkyWest has been without a union for over 40 years and 90% of the pilot group is happy, its a financially thriving company that keeps getting more flying whilst maintaining recruiting levels.



I think your perception is incorrect, theres not a thread for a regional on here where people aren't *****ing, most of all at expressjet. Why would anyone want to sign up for something that is clearly not working out for its due paying members?

Originally Posted by N1234

Let's not forget about the history on all these carriers and rules. Whatever XJT has in place has been like that for a long time. No union voted that in recently. I don't know the history but I am sure there is a story to it.



Yes, it would be nice to have max credit line and min reserves per some rules. But I have a hard time seeing that being bargained for in the current environment. And I am curious to hear if any union recently established any kind of QoL improvements or just drove up the pay scale.

Originally Posted by Nevets

One other thing for you, disillusioned, most if not all the complaints you hear at xjt (at least the side with the good contract) has to do with everything else besides the contract. Same can be said of the other regional who has just as good if not a better contract, air Wisconsin. The complaints are almost all about what management does or things that no one has control of. Also, since you conveniently ignored it, you don't have to be ALPA to unionize. You can more easily have the nmb certify sapa. But I suspect the ALPA bashing is just another excuse to not certify.

Originally Posted by disillusioned

I been awarded a line less than 88 hours once since the start of 2015. I try to waive minimum but even in the top 30% of my domicile, I usually need between 87-90 hours for required min line value. In that same time frame (15 months) we have been above 10% for our CRJ FO reserves 3 times.

So when we wonder why SW is getting all the flying, it's because they can force it on us for straight pay.



Maybe for some. For me all I want is to have an understanding between myself and the company and have both of us honor that understanding. I can't just pick and choose which parts of the SOP I follow, but it is fine for the company to not follow our "contract" The problem is that SW has always run lean to save money at the expense of our QOL. 117 changed what they could get away with and they are still trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. There are some real easy, quick wins out there. But it's not the way we have always done it.



That's the problem. Everyone is always worried about pay rates. I tried to let everyone know we should work on QOL issues with our last contract. But everyone got all excited about the bonus and extra flying we could get. Well we are getting the extra flying at the expense of PBS blowing up each month and seniority being ignored for upgrades and equipment transitions.



I chose SW for 2 and 3. Granted it helps to have a spouse that works, but I always knew that I wouldn't get filthy rich working for a regional. To make the big money you needed to move on. But there is no benefit to being senior at SW. You still don't get the trips you can hold. You still can't drop down and fly less if you need to for kids/family stuff. You still can't get the equipment/bases you desire if your current base/equipment is understaffed.

It was just sad to stumble across this thread and see that the same thing was happening last year and nothing has changed. Everyone I have talked to that has moved on from SW is happy with the choice. They have more days off and more control even on reserve. Granted that company culture can change just as it did at SW. Culture is a funny thing. Takes a long time to develop but you can lose it in a hurry. Someday SGU will find out how much of the culture has disappeared and realize they are just another regional. Maybe they really feel 90% of the group is perfectly happy. But this is also the same group that felt attrition was so low because all the pilots were happy when there was NO hiring going on. TG should learn a little from the mistakes of KB and try to get a little more engaged with the pilot group.

Originally Posted by Nevets

At xjt, they do build lines above 88 hours. But the average of all the lines cannot be above 88. The maximum they can build any individual line is 95 hours but again, the overall average cannot be more than 88. The ALPA scheduling committee can approve exceptions though and doesn't require any contract changes.

Speaking of part 117, keep in mind that it took the collective effort of ALPA to get that through congress and then the actual regulation promulgated in the ARC. I feel that the biggest benefit of ALPA is actually it's lobbying efforts in congress and all federal agencies, not just the FAA.

Also, as for money, QOL, and culture, those are not always static. They can and do change, as witnessed in this thread.

Edit: Yeah, I may have confused you or misunderstood you.