Would Skywest Sell ExpressJet?
03-26-2014, 05:57 AM
#101
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
And you think they'll play ball with you because you post a ridiculous pay scale on an anonymous message board. Ya ok.
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
This is not possible with the scope and fragmentation language in the L-ASA contract. Our contract survives your fragmentation scheme, and the you would have to abide by it. OO cannot simply take over our planes and bases, this would force a union referendum under NMB rules. Now if ALPA loses that... all bets are off, but in that scenario, SKYW would be unlikely to sell because it just made the operation immensely more profitable to them.
03-26-2014, 08:20 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 424
So stop talking about your plan on here and go do it. Everything informed pilots like Captain Tony has to say your blowing off. Stop talking and start taking action and we will see if it works. I personally think your making a lot of assumptions about what people you have no control of will do. I don't think it will work, but good luck.
03-26-2014, 09:28 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: emb-145 ca
Posts: 212
Math is what it is. That scale has the ability to attract qualified pilots, but you cannot win CPA flying with those rates. At the current scale, you can no longer attract pilots. You seem to think a middle ground exists. I am not inclined to agree with you.
As has been said repeatedly, ExpressJet could simply return the planes to Delta and then Delta leases them to Skywest. There seems to be confusion about whether the transfer language exists and is active. However, I can assure you that I see no major impediments to moving aircraft from ExpressJet to Skywest. Frankly, it would be up to the union as to how the planes move. The impact on my plan is close to zero.
As has been said repeatedly, ExpressJet could simply return the planes to Delta and then Delta leases them to Skywest. There seems to be confusion about whether the transfer language exists and is active. However, I can assure you that I see no major impediments to moving aircraft from ExpressJet to Skywest. Frankly, it would be up to the union as to how the planes move. The impact on my plan is close to zero.
P.S. Most regional pilots don't care about winning CPAs anymore, because we know no one else will really be able to win/staff them with no pilots. It's almost checkmate for regional managements, so what do you do in checkmate? How many CPAs could PSA or Endeavor steal? Regional pilots care about being paid, or being paid in a real career path, and if that cannot happen, oh well.
03-26-2014, 09:52 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Grounded
Posts: 451
Stop feeding the troll Tony. You and I both know that anyone who has any interest in purchasing an airline or starting one up (current managements included) could give two cents about labor and let alone on the opinions of the labor on a said forum. If that were truly the case, can you imagine where all of us would be now? Treating employees anything other than assets would only do disservice to a company and ultimately set it up for failure.
03-28-2014, 04:52 PM
#106
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgan
ASA contract says that whenever Skywest transfers an rj to Skywest from ASA, 5 crews must go with them after the first transfer. Hey Jerry, go ahead and transfer all of them...... I will gladly jump west and play nice out there. This merger doesn't sound really promising. What are SAPA dues?
SkyWest pilots sapa dues are 0% ;-) company funded...
Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgan
ASA contract says that whenever Skywest transfers an rj to Skywest from ASA, 5 crews must go with them after the first transfer. Hey Jerry, go ahead and transfer all of them...... I will gladly jump west and play nice out there. This merger doesn't sound really promising. What are SAPA dues?
SkyWest pilots sapa dues are 0% ;-) company funded...
Does Delta have an option to reacquire ASA?
It would be smart to look past Skywest / Expressjet's fishbowl into the ocean of Delta's financial performance. The last time I saw the numbers broken out was 2011 (I guess I could look at 2013 if I wasn't so lazy) but in 2011 Delta reported on it's DCI arrangements accounted for 21% of the company's 2011 revenues ($6.39b) but 47% ($929m) of Delta's 2011 operating profit.
How much more profitable would DCI be without a parasitic shareholder group, management structure, duplicative flight operations and exclusive Certificates which result in DCI being operated as about 8 distinct fleet types instead of 3 ? Isn't 40% of Delta's domestic flying a "core business" for Delta?
It would be smart to look past Skywest / Expressjet's fishbowl into the ocean of Delta's financial performance. The last time I saw the numbers broken out was 2011 (I guess I could look at 2013 if I wasn't so lazy) but in 2011 Delta reported on it's DCI arrangements accounted for 21% of the company's 2011 revenues ($6.39b) but 47% ($929m) of Delta's 2011 operating profit.
How much more profitable would DCI be without a parasitic shareholder group, management structure, duplicative flight operations and exclusive Certificates which result in DCI being operated as about 8 distinct fleet types instead of 3 ? Isn't 40% of Delta's domestic flying a "core business" for Delta?
03-28-2014, 05:17 PM
#107
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
And you think they'll play ball with you because you post a ridiculous pay scale on an anonymous message board. Ya ok.
Math is what it is. That scale has the ability to attract qualified pilots, but you cannot win CPA flying with those rates. At the current scale, you can no longer attract pilots. You seem to think a middle ground exists. I am not inclined to agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
This is not possible with the scope and fragmentation language in the L-ASA contract. Our contract survives your fragmentation scheme, and the you would have to abide by it. OO cannot simply take over our planes and bases, this would force a union referendum under NMB rules. Now if ALPA loses that... all bets are off, but in that scenario, SKYW would be unlikely to sell because it just made the operation immensely more profitable to them.
As has been said repeatedly, ExpressJet could simply return the planes to Delta and then Delta leases them to Skywest. There seems to be confusion about whether the transfer language exists and is active. However, I can assure you that I see no major impediments to moving aircraft from ExpressJet to Skywest. Frankly, it would be up to the union as to how the planes move. The impact on my plan is close to zero.
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
And you think they'll play ball with you because you post a ridiculous pay scale on an anonymous message board. Ya ok.
Math is what it is. That scale has the ability to attract qualified pilots, but you cannot win CPA flying with those rates. At the current scale, you can no longer attract pilots. You seem to think a middle ground exists. I am not inclined to agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
This is not possible with the scope and fragmentation language in the L-ASA contract. Our contract survives your fragmentation scheme, and the you would have to abide by it. OO cannot simply take over our planes and bases, this would force a union referendum under NMB rules. Now if ALPA loses that... all bets are off, but in that scenario, SKYW would be unlikely to sell because it just made the operation immensely more profitable to them.
As has been said repeatedly, ExpressJet could simply return the planes to Delta and then Delta leases them to Skywest. There seems to be confusion about whether the transfer language exists and is active. However, I can assure you that I see no major impediments to moving aircraft from ExpressJet to Skywest. Frankly, it would be up to the union as to how the planes move. The impact on my plan is close to zero.
The loophole requires the current lease on the aircraft or the CPA to expire. There would be a time period for that to be able to happen. And then you may have major labor strife from pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, and dispatchers, all for circumventing a contract.
Tell that to Jerry Atkin!
03-28-2014, 11:12 PM
#108
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 77
This is not possible with the scope and fragmentation language in the L-ASA contract. Our contract survives your fragmentation scheme, and the you would have to abide by it. OO cannot simply take over our planes and bases, this would force a union referendum under NMB rules. Now if ALPA loses that... all bets are off, but in that scenario, SKYW would be unlikely to sell because it just made the operation immensely more profitable to them.
The pilots are not likely to agree to OO's terms. You have not done enough research into the labor problems occurring at ExpressJet and that is the weakness of your scheme. In our recent failed contract vote, both the company and the union told the pilots basically "vote yes or the company is shutting down". The pilots responded with an 83% no vote. That means 83% of the pilots are willing to walk away. And you think they'll play ball with you because you post a ridiculous pay scale on an anonymous message board. Ya ok.
But like I said before, good luck with your ERAU grad school paper. I hope you do well on it.
The pilots are not likely to agree to OO's terms. You have not done enough research into the labor problems occurring at ExpressJet and that is the weakness of your scheme. In our recent failed contract vote, both the company and the union told the pilots basically "vote yes or the company is shutting down". The pilots responded with an 83% no vote. That means 83% of the pilots are willing to walk away. And you think they'll play ball with you because you post a ridiculous pay scale on an anonymous message board. Ya ok.
But like I said before, good luck with your ERAU grad school paper. I hope you do well on it.
03-29-2014, 05:07 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,951
Both sides of the pilot union are preparing for new negotiations, which will probably commence soon.
03-29-2014, 11:07 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: emb-145 ca
Posts: 212
I do not believe the company ever told the pilots they were going to "shut down." What they told us is they will not seek new flying unless they have known costs-- a new pilot labor contract. So read into that what you will. We either do not believe them, or if we believe them, do not care because there is no future worthwhile under concessions of any kind.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
