SkyWest pilots approve pay proposal.
02-05-2014, 06:02 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Capt
Posts: 611
All management would say is "if this passes you'll be ALPA within the year" and everyone would vote no. I think the risk of getting folded into ALPA would be enough to sink any new movement. You gotta get ride of ALPA first. Chicken or egg kind of thing. Why not consider starting a regional level union with SW/ASA/XJT as founding members? The leaders would have to have balls of steal but not antagonistic. The bylaws would limit compensation to say 100hrs month at 10yr CA pay and have term limits to start.
02-05-2014, 08:27 PM
#83
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
Really? With all the anti-ALPA discussions going on, right now is the time to strike while the iron is hot! Certify SAPA and I guarantee that there would be enough ASA/XJT pilots that would get rid of ALPA and go in house IF (big if, I know) it meant one list.
All management would say is "if this passes you'll be ALPA within the year" and everyone would vote no. I think the risk of getting folded into ALPA would be enough to sink any new movement. You gotta get ride of ALPA first. Chicken or egg kind of thing. Why not consider starting a regional level union with SW/ASA/XJT as founding members? The leaders would have to have balls of steal but not antagonistic. The bylaws would limit compensation to say 100hrs month at 10yr CA pay and have term limits to start.
Originally Posted by Nevets
Really? With all the anti-ALPA discussions going on, right now is the time to strike while the iron is hot! Certify SAPA and I guarantee that there would be enough ASA/XJT pilots that would get rid of ALPA and go in house IF (big if, I know) it meant one list.
All management would say is "if this passes you'll be ALPA within the year" and everyone would vote no. I think the risk of getting folded into ALPA would be enough to sink any new movement. You gotta get ride of ALPA first. Chicken or egg kind of thing. Why not consider starting a regional level union with SW/ASA/XJT as founding members? The leaders would have to have balls of steal but not antagonistic. The bylaws would limit compensation to say 100hrs month at 10yr CA pay and have term limits to start.
I definitely think the idea of a regional union is more likely at this point with all the anti-ALPA rage going on. It's something many of us are talking about. And I like the idea of term limits also.
02-06-2014, 02:34 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Capt
Posts: 611
That problem has already been taken care of in our transition and process agreement. That language could be recycled. Basically, it's seat locks.
It's not up to management on what union we pick. They have absolutely no say in the matter. Getting rid of ALPA leaves us with no protection. Either way, you would need to unionize anyway. So there really is no way around certifying SAPA. Certifying SAPA doesn't mean an automatic merger of operations or lists. Management will still be against that regardless of unionism. That will have to be through negotiations with management.
I definitely think the idea of a regional union is more likely at this point with all the anti-ALPA rage going on. It's something many of us are talking about. And I like the idea of term limits also.
It's not up to management on what union we pick. They have absolutely no say in the matter. Getting rid of ALPA leaves us with no protection. Either way, you would need to unionize anyway. So there really is no way around certifying SAPA. Certifying SAPA doesn't mean an automatic merger of operations or lists. Management will still be against that regardless of unionism. That will have to be through negotiations with management.
I definitely think the idea of a regional union is more likely at this point with all the anti-ALPA rage going on. It's something many of us are talking about. And I like the idea of term limits also.
All these pay freezes and unilateral changes in policy continue to inch the group towards the inevitable, but in my opinion, a certified SAPA is the only chance in the near future. A union that really is interested in working with management to grow a profitable company, with rules that allow for flexibility and direct communication yet real teeth to protect pilots.
02-06-2014, 02:46 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 424
02-06-2014, 05:58 PM
#86
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 60
I agree with this... on a side note, you disrespect the profession by not joining it... two ALPA drives... and other union drives too... while you may have voted yes yourself, you are tied to your collective choice.
I chide my fellow pilots for relaxing scoping... hating the regional pilots after they created them... ?? Legacy pilots need to go thru the painful recovery of fixing the mistakes they made... and with most regionals being ALPA it will be easier to broker a deal....
I even propose that regional airlines dissolve and mainline take all the flying... even the POS Bros you guys fly... AND those regional pilots come to mainline with longevity credit... except for Skywest pilots. For not being ALPA you guys can interview and start all over.... but not to worry... you guys get other bennies for free, why not that...
I chide my fellow pilots for relaxing scoping... hating the regional pilots after they created them... ?? Legacy pilots need to go thru the painful recovery of fixing the mistakes they made... and with most regionals being ALPA it will be easier to broker a deal....
I even propose that regional airlines dissolve and mainline take all the flying... even the POS Bros you guys fly... AND those regional pilots come to mainline with longevity credit... except for Skywest pilots. For not being ALPA you guys can interview and start all over.... but not to worry... you guys get other bennies for free, why not that...
02-06-2014, 09:35 PM
#87
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
That problem has already been taken care of in our transition and process agreement. That language could be recycled. Basically, it's seat locks.
It's not up to management on what union we pick. They have absolutely no say in the matter. Getting rid of ALPA leaves us with no protection. Either way, you would need to unionize anyway. So there really is no way around certifying SAPA. Certifying SAPA doesn't mean an automatic merger of operations or lists. Management will still be against that regardless of unionism. That will have to be through negotiations with management.
I definitely think the idea of a regional union is more likely at this point with all the anti-ALPA rage going on. It's something many of us are talking about. And I like the idea of term limits also.
I'm not advocating XJT go without a union. I understand you have been on the receiving end of predatory management practices in the past. I'm saying there is NO WAY the SkyWest side will ever consider organizing if there is a chance of getting taken over by ALPA. And with the size advantage the new XJT has that would be a real possibility. SkyWest is full of Glenn Beck types who hate unions in their DNA. Also guys from other APLA carriers that didn't have a good experience, and guys that just want to upgrade and get out and don't want to rock the boat.
All these pay freezes and unilateral changes in policy continue to inch the group towards the inevitable, but in my opinion, a certified SAPA is the only chance in the near future. A union that really is interested in working with management to grow a profitable company, with rules that allow for flexibility and direct communication yet real teeth to protect pilots.
Originally Posted by Nevets
That problem has already been taken care of in our transition and process agreement. That language could be recycled. Basically, it's seat locks.
It's not up to management on what union we pick. They have absolutely no say in the matter. Getting rid of ALPA leaves us with no protection. Either way, you would need to unionize anyway. So there really is no way around certifying SAPA. Certifying SAPA doesn't mean an automatic merger of operations or lists. Management will still be against that regardless of unionism. That will have to be through negotiations with management.
I definitely think the idea of a regional union is more likely at this point with all the anti-ALPA rage going on. It's something many of us are talking about. And I like the idea of term limits also.
I'm not advocating XJT go without a union. I understand you have been on the receiving end of predatory management practices in the past. I'm saying there is NO WAY the SkyWest side will ever consider organizing if there is a chance of getting taken over by ALPA. And with the size advantage the new XJT has that would be a real possibility. SkyWest is full of Glenn Beck types who hate unions in their DNA. Also guys from other APLA carriers that didn't have a good experience, and guys that just want to upgrade and get out and don't want to rock the boat.
All these pay freezes and unilateral changes in policy continue to inch the group towards the inevitable, but in my opinion, a certified SAPA is the only chance in the near future. A union that really is interested in working with management to grow a profitable company, with rules that allow for flexibility and direct communication yet real teeth to protect pilots.
02-07-2014, 03:07 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Capt
Posts: 611
Have you been reading these forums? If there was a vote between SAPA and ALPA between the 3 pilot groups, ALPA wouldn't have a chance! The 83% against vote was not just a vote against the TA and management but also a vote against ALPA and their sales job of that POS TA. And I'm ok with that as long as it means Skywest pilots support for one list.
02-07-2014, 04:33 AM
#89
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
Have you been reading these forums? If there was a vote between SAPA and ALPA between the 3 pilot groups, ALPA wouldn't have a chance! The 83% against vote was not just a vote against the TA and management but also a vote against ALPA and their sales job of that POS TA. And I'm ok with that as long as it means Skywest pilots support for one list.
Fair enough. Time will tell how serious you are in ditching ALPA. Selling a single list depends on it.
Originally Posted by Nevets
Have you been reading these forums? If there was a vote between SAPA and ALPA between the 3 pilot groups, ALPA wouldn't have a chance! The 83% against vote was not just a vote against the TA and management but also a vote against ALPA and their sales job of that POS TA. And I'm ok with that as long as it means Skywest pilots support for one list.
Fair enough. Time will tell how serious you are in ditching ALPA. Selling a single list depends on it.
In any case, it doesn't matter what letters you use to call your union, they will still be made up of the same pilots regardless. That's why it doesn't matter to me if we go with SAPA. It'll be the same thing because it's the same pilots.
02-07-2014, 05:58 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 139
Yeah, well what I'm trying to say is that one list will be easier if you certify SAPA so that all pilot groups can actually collaborate at the negotiating table.
In any case, it doesn't matter what letters you use to call your union, they will still be made up of the same pilots regardless. That's why it doesn't matter to me if we go with SAPA. It'll be the same thing because it's the same pilots.
In any case, it doesn't matter what letters you use to call your union, they will still be made up of the same pilots regardless. That's why it doesn't matter to me if we go with SAPA. It'll be the same thing because it's the same pilots.
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