SkyWest pilots approve pay proposal.
02-04-2014, 02:55 PM
#71
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Voting for higher pay, which directly translates to higher costs as a subcontractor, only works if you can directly bring your competitors wages up as well. That is the entire premise of a union: "a union wage." As long as the various unions act in a disconnected way, and anybody who is willing to pay 2% of their paycheck can be certified as an alpa carrier, ALPA does not act like or provide any real benefits aside from perhaps legal and medical Council. The real point of the Union is to establish a baseline rate, below which if you operate at you cannot be a union member and therefore are doing union work as a scab. To see various airlines take large concessions and slit the throats of their fellow union members, is totally and entirely contradictory to the very idea of unionizing.
The name of the game in this country is capitalism and it is based on the premise that if the same work can be done for less, you hire that person. In the regional airline world of subcontracting and contracts that are unique to every different airline, for both the pilots and the contracts with mainline partners, the union model only makes sense if there is solidarity between pilot groups.
What ever the best intentions of any given pilot group are, the de facto result is good old-fashioned cutthroat capitalism, and the most heavily unionized (regional) airlines become the least flexible and eventually fade out of relevance. Comair, AWAC, eagle, horizon, etc. You don't have to like this message, but it is just the true state of the regional industry. Until there is any kind of inter-airline unity, there is no such thing as raising the bar. The nail that sticks out gets hammered, therefore all these discussions are just abstract ideas about what a regional union could be, because in practice it is nothing like that.
Without a "minimum union wage" ALPA is about as relevant as SAPA.
* DISCLAIMER: this does not apply to mainline for obvious reasons
The name of the game in this country is capitalism and it is based on the premise that if the same work can be done for less, you hire that person. In the regional airline world of subcontracting and contracts that are unique to every different airline, for both the pilots and the contracts with mainline partners, the union model only makes sense if there is solidarity between pilot groups.
What ever the best intentions of any given pilot group are, the de facto result is good old-fashioned cutthroat capitalism, and the most heavily unionized (regional) airlines become the least flexible and eventually fade out of relevance. Comair, AWAC, eagle, horizon, etc. You don't have to like this message, but it is just the true state of the regional industry. Until there is any kind of inter-airline unity, there is no such thing as raising the bar. The nail that sticks out gets hammered, therefore all these discussions are just abstract ideas about what a regional union could be, because in practice it is nothing like that.
Without a "minimum union wage" ALPA is about as relevant as SAPA.
* DISCLAIMER: this does not apply to mainline for obvious reasons
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit
SKYW has a vote and brings ALPA on board.... Then a filing with the NMB for single carrier status.
4600 XJT + 3200 SKYW pilots = 7,800 pilot unified and able to negotiate with much more strength.
As it stands they are playing the two groups against each other and freezing the pay and working conditions of both groups. Sad that the movement hasn't gained more steam.
Here's to hoping the next drive is successful.
Decertify ALPA and have an in house union and you'll have a chance.
Originally Posted by shiznit
SKYW has a vote and brings ALPA on board.... Then a filing with the NMB for single carrier status.
4600 XJT + 3200 SKYW pilots = 7,800 pilot unified and able to negotiate with much more strength.
As it stands they are playing the two groups against each other and freezing the pay and working conditions of both groups. Sad that the movement hasn't gained more steam.
Here's to hoping the next drive is successful.
Decertify ALPA and have an in house union and you'll have a chance.
02-04-2014, 03:44 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Capt
Posts: 611
This is actually something that floats around a fair bit. Those that have been around long enough remember the closest union vote SkyWest has had has been to certify SAPA. The ALPA drive a few years later failed miserably.
If there was a chance a certified SAPA would get rolled into ALPA I think there is very little chance SkyWest pilots would choose to organize. And with the pilot numbers weighted on the ASA/Xjet side this is a likely scenario.
So again you'll have to decertify ALPA and have an in house union for the 3 carriers and it'd stand a good chance of passing.
If there was a chance a certified SAPA would get rolled into ALPA I think there is very little chance SkyWest pilots would choose to organize. And with the pilot numbers weighted on the ASA/Xjet side this is a likely scenario.
So again you'll have to decertify ALPA and have an in house union for the 3 carriers and it'd stand a good chance of passing.
02-04-2014, 03:46 PM
#73
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,275
SKYW has a vote and brings ALPA on board.... Then a filing with the NMB for single carrier status.
4600 XJT + 3200 SKYW pilots = 7,800 pilot unified and able to negotiate with much more strength.
As it stands they are playing the two groups against each other and freezing the pay and working conditions of both groups. Sad that the movement hasn't gained more steam.
Here's to hoping the next drive is successful.
4600 XJT + 3200 SKYW pilots = 7,800 pilot unified and able to negotiate with much more strength.
As it stands they are playing the two groups against each other and freezing the pay and working conditions of both groups. Sad that the movement hasn't gained more steam.
Here's to hoping the next drive is successful.
02-04-2014, 03:52 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 378
The closest vote was 1999, Alpa. Failed by 6 votes.
02-04-2014, 03:53 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: RJ Captain
Posts: 1,183
This is actually something that floats around a fair bit. Those that have been around long enough remember the closest union vote SkyWest has had has been to certify SAPA. The ALPA drive a few years later failed miserably.
If there was a chance a certified SAPA would get rolled into ALPA I think there is very little chance SkyWest pilots would choose to organize. And with the pilot numbers weighted on the ASA/Xjet side this is a likely scenario.
So again you'll have to decertify ALPA and have an in house union for the 3 carriers and it'd stand a good chance of passing.
If there was a chance a certified SAPA would get rolled into ALPA I think there is very little chance SkyWest pilots would choose to organize. And with the pilot numbers weighted on the ASA/Xjet side this is a likely scenario.
So again you'll have to decertify ALPA and have an in house union for the 3 carriers and it'd stand a good chance of passing.
The in house drive had major problems. No decision on an open or closed shop, etc...Most realized as well that as an organization it would have very little money to hire outside help for a number of years.
02-04-2014, 03:56 PM
#76
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
Certify SAPA and you'll have a chance
This is actually something that floats around a fair bit. Those that have been around long enough remember the closest union vote SkyWest has had has been to certify SAPA. The ALPA drive a few years later failed miserably.
If there was a chance a certified SAPA would get rolled into ALPA I think there is very little chance SkyWest pilots would choose to organize. And with the pilot numbers weighted on the ASA/Xjet side this is a likely scenario.
So again you'll have to decertify ALPA and have an in house union for the 3 carriers and it'd stand a good chance of passing.
Originally Posted by Nevets
Certify SAPA and you'll have a chance
This is actually something that floats around a fair bit. Those that have been around long enough remember the closest union vote SkyWest has had has been to certify SAPA. The ALPA drive a few years later failed miserably.
If there was a chance a certified SAPA would get rolled into ALPA I think there is very little chance SkyWest pilots would choose to organize. And with the pilot numbers weighted on the ASA/Xjet side this is a likely scenario.
So again you'll have to decertify ALPA and have an in house union for the 3 carriers and it'd stand a good chance of passing.
02-04-2014, 05:23 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 378
Would Xjet go for one list but separate certificates? I'm all in favor of one list and one contract. It would protect from the whipsawing that is going on. But I know a lot at SkyWest don't want one list cause they feel it would lead to a merger of operations and getting pushed down by more senior Xjet folks. Paranoia in my opinion. Give it a few months and it won't even matter.
02-04-2014, 07:42 PM
#78
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Would Xjet go for one list but separate certificates? I'm all in favor of one list and one contract. It would protect from the whipsawing that is going on. But I know a lot at SkyWest don't want one list cause they feel it would lead to a merger of operations and getting pushed down by more senior Xjet folks. Paranoia in my opinion. Give it a few months and it won't even matter.
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