Skywest Pilots raise
01-10-2014, 02:21 PM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Just another RJ guy
Posts: 906
Dear Lord my friend, you can’t possibly be serious…….
Just because you're in bankruptcy doesn't mean concessions are mandatory. Take a look at the American bankruptcy, the first bankruptcy proposal American pilots received actually included decent pay raises (this agreement came out before the merger agreement)... I know it's not Apples to Apples but it's an example that just because you’re in bankruptcy doesn’t mean you have to take it up the poop-shoot as much as your all did. Also you're contract wasn't amendable (AMRs was) nor industry leading so negotiating any changes wasn't necessary. You could have just held the line or accepted freezes but instead, just like with PSA, your jobs were threatened and you all caved. I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same and accept concessions if placed in your shoes but there’s no way in hell I would have accepted anything close to what you all did. IMO it's always better to take minor concessions rather than lose 100% of your pay when they close the doors, BUT since you’re pay was already competitive you didn't need to accept the massive concessions you guys voted YES to. If you had to take concessions 5% or so would have put you below industry average but no, you guys gave up the farm and every gain any regional had made over the last decade. Now I understand that Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy when you're not facing Delta's wrath, and we all know Delta's proven that you don't mess with them or they WILL shut you’re a$$ down, but come on man what are you smoking? 9E’s agreement sent a tidal wave throughout this industry and started this backward downward slide, which means you deserve any and all criticism you receive so take some responsibility for your actions.
What you're failing to understand is bankruptcy or not, other companies still have to compete this yours and voting in these massive concessions killed any chance of any improvements within our industry. Effectively 9E pilot’s single handedly destroyed any possibly of having a decent career at the regional level. And bankruptcy or not PSA just followed your lead. Remember all other management teams around our industry could care to $@&%’s that your new agreement was negotiated during bankruptcy; they only care about competing with your new cost structure. So please don't come on here and act as though you had no choice and definitely don't spread this bull about the judge "imposing" concessions upon you when "imposing" means you had no vote nor say what so ever. That’s absurd and ridiculous since these massive concessions were approved by your pilot group with 86% of the pilots voting and 85% voting yes. And during the processes of that agreement being written your pilot group had the ability to argument their position just as Mgmt. did, but in the end it came down to a vote by the pilot group. In the end the simple fact is you all voted yes to unnecessarily massive concessions and laid the framework for PSA to follow.
Be a man and take responsibility for your role.
Just because you're in bankruptcy doesn't mean concessions are mandatory. Take a look at the American bankruptcy, the first bankruptcy proposal American pilots received actually included decent pay raises (this agreement came out before the merger agreement)... I know it's not Apples to Apples but it's an example that just because you’re in bankruptcy doesn’t mean you have to take it up the poop-shoot as much as your all did. Also you're contract wasn't amendable (AMRs was) nor industry leading so negotiating any changes wasn't necessary. You could have just held the line or accepted freezes but instead, just like with PSA, your jobs were threatened and you all caved. I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same and accept concessions if placed in your shoes but there’s no way in hell I would have accepted anything close to what you all did. IMO it's always better to take minor concessions rather than lose 100% of your pay when they close the doors, BUT since you’re pay was already competitive you didn't need to accept the massive concessions you guys voted YES to. If you had to take concessions 5% or so would have put you below industry average but no, you guys gave up the farm and every gain any regional had made over the last decade. Now I understand that Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy when you're not facing Delta's wrath, and we all know Delta's proven that you don't mess with them or they WILL shut you’re a$$ down, but come on man what are you smoking? 9E’s agreement sent a tidal wave throughout this industry and started this backward downward slide, which means you deserve any and all criticism you receive so take some responsibility for your actions.
What you're failing to understand is bankruptcy or not, other companies still have to compete this yours and voting in these massive concessions killed any chance of any improvements within our industry. Effectively 9E pilot’s single handedly destroyed any possibly of having a decent career at the regional level. And bankruptcy or not PSA just followed your lead. Remember all other management teams around our industry could care to $@&%’s that your new agreement was negotiated during bankruptcy; they only care about competing with your new cost structure. So please don't come on here and act as though you had no choice and definitely don't spread this bull about the judge "imposing" concessions upon you when "imposing" means you had no vote nor say what so ever. That’s absurd and ridiculous since these massive concessions were approved by your pilot group with 86% of the pilots voting and 85% voting yes. And during the processes of that agreement being written your pilot group had the ability to argument their position just as Mgmt. did, but in the end it came down to a vote by the pilot group. In the end the simple fact is you all voted yes to unnecessarily massive concessions and laid the framework for PSA to follow.
Be a man and take responsibility for your role.
I think your anger should be with PSA. They voluntarily took concessions without threat of any judge imposing (yes, imposing...i know you like that word) any concessionary contract upon them. Once again....A JUDGE CAN DO WHAT EVER HE WANTS to make a company profitable and bring them out of bankruptcy. Before you sound like a baboon again...do some research on how things played out in court during the 9E bankruptcy. I know you're not going to do it but I've got nothing else to say.
01-10-2014, 03:35 PM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Another RJ FO
Posts: 1,272
Everyone here is grandfathered in. The 2 year lock will only apply to classes that start after it passes.
01-10-2014, 03:37 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 196
This might be the be the biggest game of chess I've seen.
Complete conjecture here but this could be sgu's strategic maneuver against other regional carriers and the pilots are just happy recipients.
A. Can't come close to cutting pay and costs enough to begin to compete with the bottom feeders.
B. They have the cash to go all in on staffing the airline durning the regional staffing pinch, which results in continuation of premium contracts for lift.
C. In one year they can either cut and dive for the bottom like psa, or double down.
D. First year pay left unchanged. I fully expect a hiring bonus to be announced.
With that lift they may be able to throw back against big daddy-d's reset.
Wildcard: the expressjet ta, do they want a no vote and why?
Complete conjecture here but this could be sgu's strategic maneuver against other regional carriers and the pilots are just happy recipients.
A. Can't come close to cutting pay and costs enough to begin to compete with the bottom feeders.
B. They have the cash to go all in on staffing the airline durning the regional staffing pinch, which results in continuation of premium contracts for lift.
C. In one year they can either cut and dive for the bottom like psa, or double down.
D. First year pay left unchanged. I fully expect a hiring bonus to be announced.
With that lift they may be able to throw back against big daddy-d's reset.
Wildcard: the expressjet ta, do they want a no vote and why?
01-10-2014, 03:56 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
This might be the be the biggest game of chess I've seen.
Complete conjecture here but this could be sgu's strategic maneuver against other regional carriers and the pilots are just happy recipients.
A. Can't come close to cutting pay and costs enough to begin to compete with the bottom feeders.
B. They have the cash to go all in on staffing the airline durning the regional staffing pinch, which results in continuation of premium contracts for lift.
C. In one year they can either cut and dive for the bottom like psa, or double down.
D. First year pay left unchanged. I fully expect a hiring bonus to be announced.
With that lift they may be able to throw back against big daddy-d's reset.
Wildcard: the expressjet ta, do they want a no vote and why?
Complete conjecture here but this could be sgu's strategic maneuver against other regional carriers and the pilots are just happy recipients.
A. Can't come close to cutting pay and costs enough to begin to compete with the bottom feeders.
B. They have the cash to go all in on staffing the airline durning the regional staffing pinch, which results in continuation of premium contracts for lift.
C. In one year they can either cut and dive for the bottom like psa, or double down.
D. First year pay left unchanged. I fully expect a hiring bonus to be announced.
With that lift they may be able to throw back against big daddy-d's reset.
Wildcard: the expressjet ta, do they want a no vote and why?
01-10-2014, 04:48 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 190
This might be the be the biggest game of chess I've seen.
Complete conjecture here but this could be sgu's strategic maneuver against other regional carriers and the pilots are just happy recipients.
A. Can't come close to cutting pay and costs enough to begin to compete with the bottom feeders.
B. They have the cash to go all in on staffing the airline durning the regional staffing pinch, which results in continuation of premium contracts for lift.
C. In one year they can either cut and dive for the bottom like psa, or double down.
D. First year pay left unchanged. I fully expect a hiring bonus to be announced.
With that lift they may be able to throw back against big daddy-d's reset.
Wildcard: the expressjet ta, do they want a no vote and why?
Complete conjecture here but this could be sgu's strategic maneuver against other regional carriers and the pilots are just happy recipients.
A. Can't come close to cutting pay and costs enough to begin to compete with the bottom feeders.
B. They have the cash to go all in on staffing the airline durning the regional staffing pinch, which results in continuation of premium contracts for lift.
C. In one year they can either cut and dive for the bottom like psa, or double down.
D. First year pay left unchanged. I fully expect a hiring bonus to be announced.
With that lift they may be able to throw back against big daddy-d's reset.
Wildcard: the expressjet ta, do they want a no vote and why?
01-10-2014, 04:59 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 939
You are funny! Your not serious right? If you think 1113C forced 9E to take ridiculous concessions you obviously have a very limited understanding of 1113C and how our judicial system functions. I would suggest some books and maybe a few college classes before you return with another argument regarding 1113C.
01-10-2014, 06:25 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 555
this. Had you sat through the court procedings you would have seen what happened in the 1113c hearing. In a nutshell, the company proposed draconian cuts way worse than what Endeavor pilots have today. The pilots fought it and the judge agreed. A month later, he came back with a deal that he thought was fair to keep the company alive. Had Endevor pilots not ratified it, he could have taken it back, stripped it down and imposed it like what happened to a few majors post 9/11. Knowing the pilots of Endeavor had voted down 4 previous mgmt attempts, daddy D stepped in and added the SSP to get the pilots to ratify it. It should never have even gone to a vote because this was the Judges last and best offer. Voting on it was just giving the pilots a sense that they had some say in the process. Had it not ratified, the Judge would have stripped it bare of work rules and imposed it. The Judge isn't about being fair. He is there to keep the company alive. PSA taking concessions over threats and Endeavor going through 1113c are different animals.
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