ShyGuy

It is by definition for the 2012 VX year. Not sure where you came from prior, but this place is a huge step above any regional. I don't have any complaints against VX so far, YMMV.

ShyGuy

What program was this under?

belliott

So now us regional guys who may very well be out of a job soon (I haven't called anyone a scumbag) who are angered by this "realignment" are the ones who should be thankful for all of this when Delta mainline pilots voted away scope from the very beginning? I am confused.
I get my job (and to some degree am happy) because mainline pilots vote away scope for money... I lose my job because the same pilots vote in a new TA which constricts scope... and I should be thankful now for not having a job? I'm not trying to elevate this situation here but what am I (and the rest of my coworkers) to you Delta mainline pilots? Just a cheap hooker you use and chuck aside when you are done getting what you want?
I won't make accusations, tell you about bad experiences on your jumpseats, or say you are screwing us. That is not my style. Can anyone tell me why I should be happy about facing unemployment because of all of this... like I said before... I must be confused.

belliott

Guessing WIA. What do I win?

RJtrashPilot

I agree it is a step up from the RJ world, but it's not cool to forget where you came from. Also, you can't go around saying foolish things like setting age limits on when people should be leaving regional airlines. Everyone has their reasons. Just because you and I are flying the short 'bus now doesn't make us any better than those that either haven't moved on or couldn't move on for what ever reason.

If VX doesn't survive, can people say we were foolish for ever coming here? Of course not. We had our reasons for coming here just like some people have their reasons for staying at a regional airline.

And I used to be a Comair guy two airlines ago, FYI. So I might know a thing or two about the history there.

Geardownflaps30

And that is where u would be incorrect. Note that 41 of the 200's being returned are DELTA financed. All the Comair aircraft are Comair (Delta owned, and still are...subleased to GoJet for example) and all 141 Pinnacle 200's are ultimately Delta owned. They sublease them to other carriers to get the debt off their books, but ultimately Delta still "owns" them.

ShyGuy

Well, no, he said paid by the State of California, so it sounds like some sort of government assistance program. Not WIA.

BlueMoon

Workforce Investment Act

But you knew that since you seem to know everything else.

ShyGuy

Of course not, I am where I am today thanks to one of the lowest paying regional airlines in the industry.

No one is 'better' than someone else. But you're confusing two different industry regimes here. The regional industry is entirely a cutthroat environment. There is no long term longevity or viability at a regional, simply be definition of what a regional is: contract feed. The shortbus carriers, like VX, NK, and Frontier, are all Major/National LCCs that have a business plan in mind that does not feed a mothership. We do not contract our flying out, nor are we dependant on another airline for feed. Don't confuse the business model of a regional with that of a LCC/major.

But again, entirely different model. If VX fails (or NK or Frontier), then you can't really fault them for not knowing the future. No one knows right now if in 10 years that VX, NK, or Frontier will be around. However, when it comes to regionals, the odds are considerably higher stacked against pilots because by definition the regional is doing contract work that is at the mercy of a major airline. The majors want cheap prices, lower costs, so it's a huge difference in the long term prospectus of regional carriers... it just isn't there. Are you willing to gamble your career on a regional outsourced feeder? I know I'm not!

Then you know that your MEC sold you down the river with that memo post-9/11 that held Delta furloughees as hostage. Even crazier that the Comair MEC did not have any recall (heads roll). It would seem people were okay with the status quo. Unfortunately for your colleagues, the Delta pilots (and their MEC) didn't forget.


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I'd also like to copy/paste this post of mine from another thread, and I hope this explains to you why I feel the way I do in regards to regionals:

The industry is simply trying to re-adjust itself back to what regional outsource flying was SUPPOSE to be: cheap labor, where people come in, get their time, and move on. Regionals were never suppose to be a place where lifers would stop there, and push seniority to 20+ yrs for Captains and 10+ years for FOs. Comair's demise is coming from Delta, because it will not be feasible to have a 44 jet operation with the most senior regional pilot group in the country, flying the oldest CRJs in the country with the highest maintenance cost.

Some people think they're suppose to be rewarded for giving a career to a regional, well there's no reward. I remember when I showed up to class at 9E. Clive S walked in and told us to enjoy our time here, get our time, and move on in 5 years. He wasn't joking. That's what they want. Now, true, the economy tanked and hiring slowed, but it doesn't change the long term prospects at a regional.

EVERY regional today has grown at the expense of some other airline that was cutting its planes and pilots. Period. That is fact. At Pinnacle, the 1999 contract-for-CRJs was signed in and over 130 CRJs came in from 2000-2006, while NWA Boeing 727s, DC-9-10s/20s/30s disappeared altogether, along with many NWA pilot jobs. Similarly, Comair and ASA grew tons post 9/11, while Delta put over 1,000 pilots on the streets.

I don't blame GoJet pilots for where they are today. A significant number are United furloughees, who would love to go back to mainline. There are others from Champion, ATA, Aloha, etc, you know, places where ALPA failed to protect their jobs. Not to mention, GoJets was formed by a ruthless owner, in a battle he won against the TSA ALPA who tried to fight without any leverage. ALPA failed. Hulas wanted growth for a certain payrate, and TSA pilots didn't. You then must live with the consquences. This isn't the first time management has stepped around ALPA. Even Pinnacle was screwed when 9E Corp purchased a non-union airline as their driving model for growth, while shrinking (downgrading and displacing) union ALPA pilots at 9E.

Regionals are supposed to be cheap, with low longevity. The likes of Comair, Mesaba/Pinnacle have no place in the industry when you have the highest seniority pilots flying around for high costs. The Compasses and GoJets of the industry, newer regional airlines with very low longevity is where the growth will go. Let it be a lesson, espcially in the Delta Connection system. If you are a regional pilot in the DCI system, no matter what regional airline, you need to plan on moving on. Delta doesn't give a crap about your plans on being a regional lifer. They are going to give airplanes where it is cheapest.

ShyGuy

No, I thought he meant Women In Aviation. That's the only WIA I know of. I honestly don't know about this Workforce Investment Act, so I'll look it up. But if it's a government assistance program, sounds like my tax money went to pay for someone else's career enhancement. Thanks socialism!