Crazy Canuck

Brutal!!

Can you guys give me some real life examples of CS trying to schedule you for illegal trips? Is it really just as simple as they like to try and make you bust your duty limit? This seems too stupid to actually screw up....

Electra

They aren't trying to make you so something illegal on purpose. Sometimes CrewTrac (the program they use) hasn't caught up to the fact that you're massively delayed, or your deadhead will make you late for your scheduled flights, etc. It's on you to catch it first before it becomes your headache at an outstation when you time out. Some people will happily accept a release into rest so they can catch the football game or something, where others can't stand the thought of being forced to fly until 1AM since they're AM reserves, CS will try to see if you're the former if they're in a bind.

I repeat. Read the Reserve section of the SAPA forums.

Crazy Canuck

Thanks Electra and FaceBiter!

At my last job we dealt with issues similar to this all the time. Our RAP's were 6:30 am-3:00 pm. However, there was no part 117 so it was not uncommon to get a call from dispatch (also crew scheduling there) at 2:45 asking us to report at 16:00 for a 10+ hour duty day to cover delayed flying. In the summer we could get calls to report at 16:00 for 14 hours for overnight fire evacuations. They just didn't get the idea that we weren't sleeping around all day so that we could be rested for 14 hours of duty from the moment we were called. It got to be a pretty bloody fight, but the "fatigue" card works wonders!

Even if I wasn't capped at 16 hours, if you want me to fly until 3 am the answer is no! I was rested for 9 am and am reasonably functional as a human being, much less a pilot, until midnight, give or take. It's plain old common sense. You wouldn't ask anyone at CS to stay awake all day then drive their car somewhere throughout the night. Why would they expect you to do the same with an airplane! LOL

Cruz5350

Double click whatever day you want in Skedplus and it'll give you a 117 breakdown on your time remaining in various categories. I make an effort to check that every day I'm on a trip just so I know where I stand. As a line holder I also check skedplus to see if my first flight cancelled or is delayed and then I back it up on the United app. I don't do that all the time, but if there is weather or an anomaly like the ATC outage you might not have to show until later and CS forgets to call. Ask me how I found that one out.

ClickClickBoom

Beware,
That feature was created by the Dixie IT Pros, very buggy, have seen 3 different sets of numbers in the same hour, and the differences were in hours, not minutes. Understanding 117 is the only easy solution, they want you to work right to the regulatory limits, you have the legal obligation to know exactly where those limits are.

Cruz5350

I should have added that disclaimer as well. If it seems remotely close to getting near I limit I do the math myself.

disillusioned

So is there a bunch of classes starting around now at DL, AA and UA?? We have lost 11 Captains so far this month. Word is that there are a bunch of people with offers and just waiting for class dates or have dates over the next couple months. Maybe we are not getting new flying but hiring like mad because they realize we are going to lose a bunch of people quick?
Kinda makes me wish KB was still around so we could remind him of his message about the low attrition due to job satisfaction. Was it job satisfaction or the fact that nobody was hiring??

ClickClickBoom

One a day, huh? KB is gone for a reason, my bet is the stack of PRIA requests didn't add up to the story he was telling Jerry and the kids. Upper SGU management has been rolling around St Geoprge in their Bentleys and Ferraris thinking that the money waterfall will never dry up, newsflash they are hundreds of miles into the desert southwest and that equals isolation, and if the people you trust to tell you the truth are as clueless as KB and AS, problems lie ahead.

skiK2

Sounds like you want people to stay? The broken regional airline model won't be fixed by lifers sticking around. Get in, try to get out, and go to a real company where it's a career of you never upgrade.

If you can't retire as a FO at a regional, you're not at a career, it's akin to a decent fast food place like Five Guys. Decent food but still, not a place to show you've made it.

disillusioned

Not at all. I was simply noticing the increased movement and not trying to come across as a greedy a-hole that wants everyone to move on so I can get mine.

My base is so senior that I hope I will be able to get out and hired as an FO at a major. I have not even had the opportunity to upgrade, but I will not take the first chance either. If the reserve re-write looks worthwhile after a couple months, I may roll the dice then. But after 4 years of abuse from AS, I will not be jumping at the first chance to be obligated to answer a 435 number while commuting to reserve.

My main point was more eloquently put by CCB. After hearing about how we are paid so well and don't need to make any improvements because everyone is so damn happy by KB, it seems like we have a lot of people moving on once the hiring picked back up.