Skywest
11-05-2014, 12:48 PM
#7521
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,635
3.,4. On a RAP or trip they can do with you whatever they want provided it doesn't exceed 117 or PPM. Know 117 like the back of your hand that'll keep you out of trouble.
11-05-2014, 05:29 PM
#7522
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: RJ right-seat warmer
Posts: 632
Release into rest is where they call you during a RAP and "put you into rest" (10 hours) in order to make you legal to accept a trip you normally would be illegal to take.
Example-
4AM-4PM reserve gets a call at 8AM that he's now on rest with a show time of 6PM and fly until 1AM.
OR
9AM-9PM Reserve gets called at 8PM, released into rest for a 6AM show time the following day.
If CS says, "We're releasing you into rest" you don't have to do it, and shouldn't because if some accident or violation occurred you'd have a hell of a time explaining how you were properly rested.
I would not call CS on a day off for ANY reason. Say you're a PM RSV (9A-9P), it's the day before your string of 4 days. You are planning on commuting from SFO-MSP or wherever on the early flight and landing in domicile at 9AM, for PM reserves the earliest you can show is 11AM (2 hour call out). If you talk to CS on that day off they could force an early show time on you, requiring you to fly in on a day off or miss it entirely because there's no flights that work and you'd be stuck with the ding on your attendance.
Example-
4AM-4PM reserve gets a call at 8AM that he's now on rest with a show time of 6PM and fly until 1AM.
OR
9AM-9PM Reserve gets called at 8PM, released into rest for a 6AM show time the following day.
If CS says, "We're releasing you into rest" you don't have to do it, and shouldn't because if some accident or violation occurred you'd have a hell of a time explaining how you were properly rested.
I would not call CS on a day off for ANY reason. Say you're a PM RSV (9A-9P), it's the day before your string of 4 days. You are planning on commuting from SFO-MSP or wherever on the early flight and landing in domicile at 9AM, for PM reserves the earliest you can show is 11AM (2 hour call out). If you talk to CS on that day off they could force an early show time on you, requiring you to fly in on a day off or miss it entirely because there's no flights that work and you'd be stuck with the ding on your attendance.
A few more noob questions:
1) What is 'self-notification'?
2) Let's say you're on reserve and they call you to fly a 4-day. On Day 2, it turns out that the original lineholder, who called in sick on Day 1 (thereby putting you on that trip) is now feeling well and wants to pick up the rest of the trip. Can CS remove you from the trip? If so, how would they notify you if you don't answer the phone?
3.) In your example above, you were scheduled for a 9a-9p reserve. But, CS switched your report time to 6 am. They're allowed to do that, just because you talked to them?
4) if they send a message via ACARS, now what? Do you just ignore it?
5) once you've bid for your reserve line for the month, can they change your days off? Or are those hard days off?
6) Does bidding/ seniority determine who gets LCR and who gets SCR? If you're stuck on SCR, is there any way to change to LCR?
11-05-2014, 06:30 PM
#7523
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Another RJ FO
Posts: 1,272
If CS gets you to agree to a trip they can waive the policy manual as long as the trip is legal per FARs. They cannot just assign it to you though. They have to ask you before they do something like that. If you pick up the phone they'll trick you into accepting by saying something like "we have a trip for you today with a 2pm show time. See you then!" They conveniently fail to mention you're being released into rest, and that you'll be flying all night.
As soon as you say "OK" without knowing the details you've now agreed to it and it is now legal. That's why you should never pick up your phone and let them talk. Look on sked+ at what they're trying to do to you so you have the upper hand when you call them to argue about it.
I recently was with a captain who got an illegal reflow that would have put him over the max FDP for the week. The response from CS was "just fly it now and we'll fix it later." Nope the reg is worded that you can't be scheduled over the max FDP. They can't fix it later. They love to interpret 117 in their own ways which is why you should look at what they're doing before you talk to them.
I get that you have to protect yourself against a request that would cause you to bust 117. I also get that you should never say 'Yeah, I can be there in less than 2 hours' while on short-call reserve. But I guess I don't understand the advantage of ignoring the phone call from CS while you're either inside your RAP or on a trip...?
11-05-2014, 07:10 PM
#7524
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
In fairness to CS, they are usually pretty busy. The "just fly it now and we'll fix it later" is probably not them trying to be cold hearted cruel monsters. Rather, they are likely stressed and unsure about what to do about the situation and hoping you will just ignorantly do it.
Any word on what to read specifically in the pilot policy manual to make sure I am on top of this ****?
Any word on what to read specifically in the pilot policy manual to make sure I am on top of this ****?
11-05-2014, 07:43 PM
#7525
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
You will be able to see the pending change on sked+, and your name will not be on the release or initialization page of ACARS. This is one scenario where you will have to call/acknowledge online after check in, but only once unless they put RR on your schedule. They can't pull you off a trip and keep calling you assigning more flying (unless you are on RR).
They cannot release you from your current RAP into rest to cover flying later on.
They cannot release you from your current RAP into rest to cover flying later on.
In other words, you get the original trip credit to add towards guarentee, or if you have broken guarentee you get paid for each hour that was put on your schedule and subsequently taken off, correct?
11-05-2014, 08:05 PM
#7527
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: Big foot
Posts: 451
Glad to see this thread back on track.
11-05-2014, 08:36 PM
#7529
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 178
The Reserve section of the SAPA forums is a much better resource for figuring out the details of surviving reserve here. Searchable, even!
11-05-2014, 08:41 PM
#7530
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: RJ right-seat warmer
Posts: 632
If CS gets you to agree to a trip they can waive the policy manual as long as the trip is legal per FARs. They cannot just assign it to you though. They have to ask you before they do something like that. If you pick up the phone they'll trick you into accepting by saying something like "we have a trip for you today with a 2pm show time. See you then!" They conveniently fail to mention you're being released into rest, and that you'll be flying all night.
....
If you pick up your phone they have the advantage because they have all the facts and can present those facts in ways that will confuse or trick you into agreeing. If you don't pick up your phone you can look at your schedule, get all of the facts and decide for yourself if it's a trip you have to accept or not. Those two sentences are the TL;DR of this entire post.
....
If you pick up your phone they have the advantage because they have all the facts and can present those facts in ways that will confuse or trick you into agreeing. If you don't pick up your phone you can look at your schedule, get all of the facts and decide for yourself if it's a trip you have to accept or not. Those two sentences are the TL;DR of this entire post.
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