Skywest
10-20-2014, 07:49 PM
#7192
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Skywest
Not quite that simple.......but nice try, the odds of SKYW merging the lists are slim to none, but if you have knowledge to the contrary feel free to chime in.
But if you read the facts of the case, it gives you a glimpse of the upper management philosophy at Skywest Airlines, and by default Skywest Inc.
Skywest could have defused this case at any number of points in time but chose the path of sticking to their guns no matter what.
But if you read the facts of the case, it gives you a glimpse of the upper management philosophy at Skywest Airlines, and by default Skywest Inc.
Skywest could have defused this case at any number of points in time but chose the path of sticking to their guns no matter what.
What does merging have to do with what you quoted? Yes, slim and none, but that has nothing to do with DD.
Anyway, I thought everyone here says they get treated well?
When you have a labor contract, there is actual language dealing with the disciplinary process. Yes, in this case, DD wouldn't have had to put up all that cash up front into his defense. But the process would've ended up being decided by a neutral third party in binding arbitration. The company cannot ride rough shot over you. They have to follow a prescribed due process, in which the arbitrator decides, just as a judge does in evidential hearings, what he will allow. In the mean time, he would've been paid while awaiting the decision. If it wasn't for DD's willingness, determination, and financial wherewithal, he wouldn't have gotten his job back with back pay. Just imagine how many people this happens to? And I'm not talking about just pilots being fired. It also applies to suspensions that people cannot fight the company on.
But the biggest difference, as an at-will employee, the burden of proof is yours. Not so when you have a contract. Imagine our judicial system where you are guilty until proven innocent. That's what it's like to be an at-will employee. Even executives have "cause" clauses in their employment contract. Yes, all your top executives have employment contracts that they don't want you to enjoy.
10-20-2014, 08:33 PM
#7193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: It's hot out here.
Posts: 615
Alright Union Guy (that should be your screen name). Get us one regional seniority list. You do that, Im in.
10-21-2014, 04:57 AM
#7194
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
While I am pro Union, his position pushes more people away than he draws. Having a CBA is important, but it is not a guarantee of anything. Binding arbitration, is only as good as your arbitrator, and the side that picks last has the advantage. Final note Trans States is ALPA, how many MEC chairs have they fired? Not from the MEC but from their jobs? The "Fly it and Greive it" cry is not very comforting and isn't much different than Skywests just "do it or else" cry. Yeah Skywest terminates about 10x more pilots than any other carrier, what's your point? Proof, if they don't want you, you will be gone one way or another. I will say, it's pretty easy to not get fired, do your job, don't steal, don't lie, and don't post on Instagram. I am still there, boom!
10-21-2014, 07:38 AM
#7195
Gets Summer Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: AA
Posts: 667
How come no one told me about SkyWest and Instagram before? What great entertainment!
And here's a fun fact for your discussion: I make less at unionized US Airways than I did at non-Union SkyWest.
That is all.
And here's a fun fact for your discussion: I make less at unionized US Airways than I did at non-Union SkyWest.
That is all.
10-21-2014, 08:00 AM
#7196
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
10-21-2014, 08:50 AM
#7197
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
I know one thing that is 100% for sure: without all regionals being union, it won't ever happen. So I'm definitely not holding my breath on that.
While I am pro Union, his position pushes more people away than he draws. Having a CBA is important, but it is not a guarantee of anything. Binding arbitration, is only as good as your arbitrator, and the side that picks last has the advantage. Final note Trans States is ALPA, how many MEC chairs have they fired? Not from the MEC but from their jobs? The "Fly it and Greive it" cry is not very comforting and isn't much different than Skywests just "do it or else" cry. Yeah Skywest terminates about 10x more pilots than any other carrier, what's your point? Proof, if they don't want you, you will be gone one way or another. I will say, it's pretty easy to not get fired, do your job, don't steal, don't lie, and don't post on Instagram. I am still there, boom!
You can use me as an excuse why you get pushed away. But if you do use that excuse, it's just that, an excuse. Because being pro union never comes down to liking the person who is giving you factual information. Either you agree or don't.
Next, I've been saying all along that being union is more than about a CBA. It's a lot more than a CBA and I've even said that it's not even at top of my list.
As for arbitrators, it doesn't matter who picks last. He is a neutral third party that has no dog in the fight he is ruling on. So that is just bs excuse for the loser of the case.
Also, yes TSA have fired union reps but imagine how many more they would've fired without a union, without impunity, without the hassle? It would probably be more than twice as many as Skywest fires seeing how their management operates. The fly now grieve later has worked for me a number of times. If you have a case, you get made whole later while the company gets to operate the flight. It doesn't get swept under the rug or get forgotten. There is a process and the company cannot ignore it. If you lose your grievance, you probably didn't have a case to begin with.
Lastly, yes it's true that if they want to fire you, they will, even at union places. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Because those are the guys that deserve it. Those are the guys that don't ever get their job back and lose their arbitration (unlike the TSA guys). That's a good thing.
10-21-2014, 09:08 AM
#7198
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
I know one thing that is 100% for sure: without all regionals being union, it won't ever happen. So I'm definitely not holding my breath on that.
You can use me as an excuse why you get pushed away. But if you do use that excuse, it's just that, an excuse. Because being pro union never comes down to liking the person who is giving you factual information. Either you agree or don't.
Next, I've been saying all along that being union is more than about a CBA. It's a lot more than a CBA and I've even said that it's not even at top of my list.
As for arbitrators, it doesn't matter who picks last. He is a neutral third party that has no dog in the fight he is ruling on. So that is just bs excuse for the loser of the case.
Also, yes TSA have fired union reps but imagine how many more they would've fired without a union, without impunity, without the hassle? It would probably be more than twice as many as Skywest fires seeing how their management operates. The fly now grieve later has worked for me a number of times. If you have a case, you get made whole later while the company gets to operate the flight. It doesn't get swept under the rug or get forgotten. There is a process and the company cannot ignore it. If you lose your grievance, you probably didn't have a case to begin with.
Lastly, yes it's true that if they want to fire you, they will, even at union places. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Because those are the guys that deserve it. Those are the guys that don't ever get their job back and lose their arbitration (unlike the TSA guys). That's a good thing.
You can use me as an excuse why you get pushed away. But if you do use that excuse, it's just that, an excuse. Because being pro union never comes down to liking the person who is giving you factual information. Either you agree or don't.
Next, I've been saying all along that being union is more than about a CBA. It's a lot more than a CBA and I've even said that it's not even at top of my list.
As for arbitrators, it doesn't matter who picks last. He is a neutral third party that has no dog in the fight he is ruling on. So that is just bs excuse for the loser of the case.
Also, yes TSA have fired union reps but imagine how many more they would've fired without a union, without impunity, without the hassle? It would probably be more than twice as many as Skywest fires seeing how their management operates. The fly now grieve later has worked for me a number of times. If you have a case, you get made whole later while the company gets to operate the flight. It doesn't get swept under the rug or get forgotten. There is a process and the company cannot ignore it. If you lose your grievance, you probably didn't have a case to begin with.
Lastly, yes it's true that if they want to fire you, they will, even at union places. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Because those are the guys that deserve it. Those are the guys that don't ever get their job back and lose their arbitration (unlike the TSA guys). That's a good thing.
You are preaching to the choir, I have been involved in 2 of the latest union drives, you and I have had several conversations. Its like I told ALPA on the last ALPA drive, delivery technique is important, and guess what I was right, if you guys had listened we would be ALPA and this conversation would be moot. My question is why aren't you guys(ALPA) pushing for a single carrier hearing? All the stuff the hearing judge listed in the TSA/GoJhets hearing are satisfied in our situation. My bet is your MEC has been informed that if you file Single Carrier the doors will be chained. But that is just my guess.
10-21-2014, 12:13 PM
#7199
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 62
10-21-2014, 12:27 PM
#7200
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: Shorts CA
Posts: 80
Despite all the positives I mentioned I actually had to leave my family in Houston to live in a tiny town. Pay is decent and the upgrade is quick but 1.5 days off a week in The middle of nowhere isn't great QOL. I was a Colgan FA before I was a pilot so I know the pains of reserve...I actually kind of miss it. Ready to get back to 121 and hopefully IAH.
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