Nevets

This is not true. All Skywest pilots are at-will employees. Your work rules were not negatived by an NMB recognized bargain in agent and therefore not an actual contract with all the legal protections that it gives you because someone else is not allowed to bargain on your behalf. You may have had a negative experience with a contract but that doesn't mean that all contracts and all disputes will always have a negative outcome. Nothing is ever 100%.

rcfd13

I'm curious. What have the unions done for XJT, Eagle, Endeavor, PSA and RAH in the last 5 years? I just don't feel compelled to vote one in when things are going ok for me, our pay scale is good (compared to other regionals), and every union regional is getting screwed.

air101

It's not about taking a stand...they want SKYW to vote in a union so they can get screwed by ALPA just like every other regional has.

gojo

Skywest has economies of scale. It's their economies of scale and that dam rate reset that's made it hard on every other regional out there

Seminole00

At least they are not taking a big one up the rear like many other regionals.

Aldous Snow

I generally understand your point, but you illustrate my point exactly by saying that nothing is ever 100%. All of the misery that has befallen this industry (Again, Im not bitter, I love flying) has happened to even the strongest and richest of union shops. If SKYW decides to go back on a legal document, their is limited recourse, much like their is limited recourse for a union shop. Grievances are expensive for unions to fight, and not all wrongs will be righted. Im not saying one is better than the other, but the reality is that in the case of SKYW, the result is about the same as your union carrier.

saturn

I was seriously hoping that Nevets' first comment would be ignored. Ya'll realize she throws in these soft jabs looking to start a union vs non-union conversation. I'm guessing of the 580 pages on this thread, Nevets is literally a top 3 poster, with 90% related to unions or lack there of and the like. Please just ignore her poking of the pilot group, give no defense or response, resist the temptation.
For what its worth she makes some logical and fair responses, but it always leads to a baited "you ride coat-tails", "you have your heads in the sand" style of sentiments that go on for pages. Add in her propensity for adding multiple quotes from others then systematically hashing each idea out from each person, shoot, we will be on page 600 by the time the dust settles.

Nevets

Each property is different. You have places like Mesa who with JO, without a union, things would've been worse. Then you have places like SWA and XJT back 7 years ago where management and union work cooperatively. In either case, without a union, you don't know what you don't know. Because with a union, you have an entity independent of management who is the central repository of information dealing with pilot grievances. There are simply things that you don't know (collectively) on what is going on as far as problems pilots are having and then being able to act on them (as a union) to resolve it in manner that works for both sides. Without the possibility of a long drawn out third party arbitration process, the pilot group will never be able to get what is fair. The leverage simply isn't there, especially if your management funds your arabization, which it couldn't with an NMB recognized bargaining agent (who has fiduciary responsibility to the pilots).

So you don't know what you don't know. And once you do know, you can do more about it. But that's just contract issues. To me, that's secondary if not tertiary. There are also protections you get as far as job security, having a fair spelled out process decide by a third neutral party. In other words, you are no longer an at-will employee. Next, and to me it's the most important reason, is being part of the community of pilots who strive to make flying safer. Pulling your own weight in developing policy in what you feel is best in the interest in flying safety and then becoming a real advocate with a real voice in working towards implementing those safety policies. ASAP is the latest example of what unions have helped develop and implement that has increased safety. And with a union you can be a part of the process of continuing to make flying even safer. Without it, well you benefit from the fruits of that labor without having the privilege of seeing it through yourselves. I'm talking collectively but certainly as part of a union, you could be appointed to any of a dozen committees where you as individuals can work on certain things that you feel passionate about. And you could even be part of one dozens of government/industry entities that deal with things like nextgen, runway incursions, or any future ARCs. In other words, there is a very robust safety structure in place thanks to pilot unions that we all take for granted. We should all be a part of that if not only to financially support that structure through your dues because it not only helps you, your fellow pilot, but also passengers who may be your family. It's truly a noble thing to be a part of and I'm always glad to see my dues go to that and as a bonus go to my own job protection (insurance), and contract negotiations and compliance. It's a small price to pay for all the benefits that it gives us and the flying public.

Don't get me wrong. Pilot unions are not the end all be all. There are problems, mainly dealing with human fallibility. But that is true of any organization made up of humans. But in the end, it's just business. Management is just doing their business in the fiduciary interest of the shareholders. I want an organization to deal with issues at work who have fiduciary responsibility to me when dealing with management decisions (that are never made with pilots as top priority because it's not their job to do so). And having an NMB recognized bargaining agent is the only way to do that and the only way for pilots to truly have an independent way of steering the direction of the organization that represents you. Simply put, management does what they think is best for shareholders, as they should. So I want an independent organization who has my interest as top priority to represent me when dealing with management. It's just smart business.

TheFly

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

clearprop

Love him or hate him, you have to admit, he puts the effort in!