Skywest
11-19-2015, 08:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
11-19-2015, 09:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 613
Yup, agreed. I've been here just over a year (roughly 60% on the FO side in domicile) and I have never had a Cn or Pn pairing (maybe once for my very first composite line). Every month my award just keeps getting better and better. This latest bid it finished on layer 2, and I got the entire week over New Years off (my #1 goal).
I guess PBS finishing my award on layer 2 is a sign I need to get more picky with my bid
You have to know three things to be successful w/ PBS
1) Know the logic behind how the PBS software works; it's primary goals (award all the flying) and how the software accomplishes it.
2) You have to be realistic with your goals and expectations. This is primarily dependent on the quality of pairings in a given domicile and your relative seniority.
3)Maximize your available pairing pool!!!!!!
I have a friend who is more senior to me in the same domicile, who is constantly ****ed off at his award because he doesn't know how to bid properly. He asks the system for too much. You need to prioritize what you want, and make sacrifices. Also, don't over complicate it, with too many line or pairing properties, it will blow up in your face. Each pairing/line property does specific things, and using them together without know exactly what they do, can backfire severely.
I guess PBS finishing my award on layer 2 is a sign I need to get more picky with my bid
You have to know three things to be successful w/ PBS
1) Know the logic behind how the PBS software works; it's primary goals (award all the flying) and how the software accomplishes it.
2) You have to be realistic with your goals and expectations. This is primarily dependent on the quality of pairings in a given domicile and your relative seniority.
3)Maximize your available pairing pool!!!!!!
I have a friend who is more senior to me in the same domicile, who is constantly ****ed off at his award because he doesn't know how to bid properly. He asks the system for too much. You need to prioritize what you want, and make sacrifices. Also, don't over complicate it, with too many line or pairing properties, it will blow up in your face. Each pairing/line property does specific things, and using them together without know exactly what they do, can backfire severely.
1) Know how the software works. Nobody knows how the hell this software works. You call the PBS helpline and get one answer, you read the documentation and get another answer.
2) Be realistic with your goals and expectations. As long as you don't realistically expect to hold trips that your seniority can hold and your goal is not to expect your seniority matters, then PBS is awesome.
3) Maximize your pairing pool. As long as you just accept whatever PBS wants to give you, then you will get what you want every time!!
This month we decided to change the pairings around. Too many 4 days so we made more 3 days. Awesome right? Everyone wants to work more locals, 2 and 3 day trips. We got more so everyone should be happy right? Except now, the 3 day pairings only pay 15-16 hours and your 4 day trips now pay 20-22. I really don't care about that part. But when you want me to work 90 hours, it means that I hget to have less days off. The simple fact is until you have enough pilots to fly the hours you are picking up, then PBS will blow up, drop off layer 7 and do whatever the hell it wants to do with CN/PN.
I just love the fact that we didn't bother getting anything in our "negotiations" about reserve levels or maximum hours forced on us. We didn't ask for PBS transparency or SAPA involvement in buffers or PBS tweeks. We were told, vote in this package and we will get more flying. Well, we voted in the package and we got more flying. Just because we didn't bother working out the details, doesn't mean we can be ****ed now. If you voted yes, enjoy your profit sharing bonus and all that extra time away from home. We are just getting what we were promised.
11-19-2015, 11:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 104
There are two aspects to globalization - at least the way I understand it.
......
Aggregate "Satisfaction" - PBS also tries to achieve a global optimum in terms of line satisfaction. Not sure that is the offical term but that's probably the best way to describe it.
Let's assume a simple example with only two lines.
Line 1 (senior) has only pairings from layer 1.
Line 2 (junior) has only pairings left from layers 6 and 7
Let's assume that you switch out one or two pairings from line 1 and and instead of assigning layer 1 pairings assign two layer 4 pairings. And let's furrher assume that this will give enough flexibility to get Line 2 to come up wioth a solution of say layer 2, 3 and 4 pairings instaed of 6 and 7 only.
Then this solution would be preferred by PBS becaus the aggregate satisfaction for lines 1 and 2 is considered higher.
Basically, senior line gets scr ... a little bit but junior line benefits disproportioanlly more than senior got scr ...
The issue is that there is nothing you can really do about it w/o dis-abling "globalization"
......
Aggregate "Satisfaction" - PBS also tries to achieve a global optimum in terms of line satisfaction. Not sure that is the offical term but that's probably the best way to describe it.
Let's assume a simple example with only two lines.
Line 1 (senior) has only pairings from layer 1.
Line 2 (junior) has only pairings left from layers 6 and 7
Let's assume that you switch out one or two pairings from line 1 and and instead of assigning layer 1 pairings assign two layer 4 pairings. And let's furrher assume that this will give enough flexibility to get Line 2 to come up wioth a solution of say layer 2, 3 and 4 pairings instaed of 6 and 7 only.
Then this solution would be preferred by PBS becaus the aggregate satisfaction for lines 1 and 2 is considered higher.
Basically, senior line gets scr ... a little bit but junior line benefits disproportioanlly more than senior got scr ...
The issue is that there is nothing you can really do about it w/o dis-abling "globalization"
11-19-2015, 11:57 AM
Dumb Pilot
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: Broke
Posts: 784
There are two aspects to globalization - at least the way I understand it.
Coverage - PBS needs to assign an average line credit. As it moves down the list, there will be worse and worse pairings available. At some point PBS can simply not build a legal line any more with what is left in the pool and satisfy the other constraints like minimum days off, max in seven etc.
At this point it could just award a composite line or less than average line credit line - or it goes Robin Hood picking pairings from folks senior to make the junior line work out (and in turn assign less desirable pairings to the senior guys)
Aggregate "Satisfaction" - PBS also tries to achieve a global optimum in terms of line satisfaction. Not sure that is the offical term but that's probably the best way to describe it.
Let's assume a simple example with only two lines.
Line 1 (senior) has only pairings from layer 1.
Line 2 (junior) has only pairings left from layers 6 and 7
Let's assume that you switch out one or two pairings from line 1 and and instead of assigning layer 1 pairings assign two layer 4 pairings. And let's furrher assume that this will give enough flexibility to get Line 2 to come up wioth a solution of say layer 2, 3 and 4 pairings instaed of 6 and 7 only.
Then this solution would be preferred by PBS becaus the aggregate satisfaction for lines 1 and 2 is considered higher.
Basically, senior line gets scr ... a little bit but junior line benefits disproportioanlly more than senior got scr ...
The issue is that there is nothing you can really do about it w/o dis-abling "globalization"
Coverage - PBS needs to assign an average line credit. As it moves down the list, there will be worse and worse pairings available. At some point PBS can simply not build a legal line any more with what is left in the pool and satisfy the other constraints like minimum days off, max in seven etc.
At this point it could just award a composite line or less than average line credit line - or it goes Robin Hood picking pairings from folks senior to make the junior line work out (and in turn assign less desirable pairings to the senior guys)
Aggregate "Satisfaction" - PBS also tries to achieve a global optimum in terms of line satisfaction. Not sure that is the offical term but that's probably the best way to describe it.
Let's assume a simple example with only two lines.
Line 1 (senior) has only pairings from layer 1.
Line 2 (junior) has only pairings left from layers 6 and 7
Let's assume that you switch out one or two pairings from line 1 and and instead of assigning layer 1 pairings assign two layer 4 pairings. And let's furrher assume that this will give enough flexibility to get Line 2 to come up wioth a solution of say layer 2, 3 and 4 pairings instaed of 6 and 7 only.
Then this solution would be preferred by PBS becaus the aggregate satisfaction for lines 1 and 2 is considered higher.
Basically, senior line gets scr ... a little bit but junior line benefits disproportioanlly more than senior got scr ...
The issue is that there is nothing you can really do about it w/o dis-abling "globalization"
11-19-2015, 02:46 PM
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
Quick question...
I have an interview coming up in December. As far as equipment goes I have zero preference between the CRJ/ERJ. I'm only a 1 hour and half drive from ORD, with that being your most junior domicile for the ERJ, and second most junior for CRJ I consider myself lucky. As far as upgrade time goes which one would be the better equipment to train in?
I have an interview coming up in December. As far as equipment goes I have zero preference between the CRJ/ERJ. I'm only a 1 hour and half drive from ORD, with that being your most junior domicile for the ERJ, and second most junior for CRJ I consider myself lucky. As far as upgrade time goes which one would be the better equipment to train in?
11-19-2015, 02:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: ERJ CA
Posts: 1,082
Quick question...
I have an interview coming up in December. As far as equipment goes I have zero preference between the CRJ/ERJ. I'm only a 1 hour and half drive from ORD, with that being your most junior domicile for the ERJ, and second most junior for CRJ I consider myself lucky. As far as upgrade time goes which one would be the better equipment to train in?
I have an interview coming up in December. As far as equipment goes I have zero preference between the CRJ/ERJ. I'm only a 1 hour and half drive from ORD, with that being your most junior domicile for the ERJ, and second most junior for CRJ I consider myself lucky. As far as upgrade time goes which one would be the better equipment to train in?
All the big movement will be in the CRJ as senior guys transition over to the 175. Newhires going straight into the 175 should expect very little upward movement.
11-19-2015, 03:00 PM
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
Do you know if they are pushing applicants in the interviews to take the ERJ? Don't want to tell them no to the ERJ and risk them getting upset.
11-19-2015, 03:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 104
Quick question...
I have an interview coming up in December. As far as equipment goes I have zero preference between the CRJ/ERJ. I'm only a 1 hour and half drive from ORD, with that being your most junior domicile for the ERJ, and second most junior for CRJ I consider myself lucky. As far as upgrade time goes which one would be the better equipment to train in?
I have an interview coming up in December. As far as equipment goes I have zero preference between the CRJ/ERJ. I'm only a 1 hour and half drive from ORD, with that being your most junior domicile for the ERJ, and second most junior for CRJ I consider myself lucky. As far as upgrade time goes which one would be the better equipment to train in?
I recently referred a pilot and recommended him to go CRJ. Why? As said above there will be little movement as they are staffed with the expectation of more aircraft arriving soon, most new hires will be pushed toward the CRJ soon.
Additionally, if you go ERJ you'll have guys like me who are considering bidding over to that aircraft because it is currently so junior in ORD. I myself would see approximately a 15% seniority bump if I move. The one year seat lock is really the only thing holding some people back from what I've heard. That and no delta benefits.
11-19-2015, 03:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,238
11-19-2015, 03:21 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: ERJ CA
Posts: 1,082
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