Drone424

I just completed an interview today and it went well, however the recruiter told me I didn't have my required 1500 hours? It kind of boggled my mind as I had always interpreted the required flight time for an multi ATP certificate as "1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least: 500 Hours XC, 100 hours of night flight time, 75 hours of instrument flight, 250 hours of Pilot in Command, and 25 hours multi engine". All of my individual flight categories meet or exceed the written requirements in 61.159, and yet because my PIC + SIC time does not equal my total time I was told I am short of the required 1500 hours? Has anybody heard this or been told this before?

To clarify, all SIC time was obtained in a crewed aircraft requiring two pilots as per the manufacturer.

KevinH65

I am by no means an expert but there appears to be a lot of strings associated with counting SIC time…

“(c) A commercial pilot may log second-in-command pilot time toward the aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section and the aeronautical experience requirements in § 61.160, provided the pilot is employed by a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 135 of this chapter and the second-in-command pilot time is obtained in operations conducted for the certificate holder under part 91 or 135 of this chapter when a second pilot is not required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted, and the following requirements are met -

(1) The experience must be accomplished as part of a second-in-command professional development program approved by the Administrator under § 135.99 of this chapter;

(2) The flight operation must be conducted in accordance with the certificate holder's operations specification for the second-in-command professional development program;

(3) The pilot in command of the operation must certify in the pilot's logbook that the second-in-command pilot time was accomplished under this section; and

(4) The pilot time may not be logged as pilot-in-command time even when the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls and may not be used to meet the aeronautical experiencerequirements in paragraph (a)(5) of this section.”

UhhhKhakis

If it’s a two pilot aircraft SIC time may be logged and counted toward total time. What type of aircraft is it? I counted over 100 hours of SIC. How much is your PIC + SIC time off from 1500 hours, and does that number match your dual time from private and multi (or another class if you have something like seaplane)? If so, then you should be good.

Drone424

It was in a CE-650 series citation. I only have 35 hours in it anyways.
PIC + SIC is off from TT by 102 hours. If I add my dual received to my PIC time it equals out but the guy interviewing me said that didn't matter? I've just never heard of this interpretation of "1500 hours total time" before and wanted to see if anybody else had. I already have a CJO and a class date from another airline and they didn't have a problem with it. I'll be reaching out to the recruiter to verify but I'm guessing I won't hear back for a week

scribbler

you're not wrong if your understanding of their interpretation is correct. atp minimums are 1500 tt. that's PIC and dual received.

rickair7777

Yes dual received is total time, and can also often be logged as sole manipulator PIC although that's irrelevant in this case.

Sounds like OO may have a rogue interviewer with an FAR GCE.

JohnBurke

You'e attempting an interview, minimally qualified. You're not making the hiring decisions. The employer is. If the employer doesn't like your experience level, that's at the discretion of the employer, who has no obligation to hire you.. If you want to go somewhere and you lack the requisite experience, then you do have an option: go get the necessary experience.

I was once told that I lacked multi time, though mine was in a four-engine bomber. It was a piston airplane (large radials). It was counted the same as a Cessna 172, because it was piston. The employer was only counting multi turbine.

Employer's choice. Either get the experience, or find a different employer. Problem solved.

UhhhKhakis

This would be true if there weren’t people currently getting hired without their PIC time being 1500. There are people in class with skywest right now with 975 hours of total time. It’s clear in this situation that the recruiter has a misunderstanding of what counts as total time.

JohnBurke

Whether he does, or doesn't, it's irrelevant. He's the gatekeeper.

The original poster wasn't very clear in his comment, and never stated he had 1,500 hours, though it's inferred. He simply stated that his PIC plus his SIC did not add up to 1,500 hours. The implication is that the remainder of the time, implied as instruction received, accounted for the balance. He also specified that his SIC was in an aircraft requiring two pilots by type certification: an irrelevant observation given that the key point is that the SIC plus the PIC still didn't add to 1,500 hours.

The original poster didn't say his interview was at Skywest. Perhaps that's also implied by posting in the Skywest forum. Again, much left unsaid and vague.

It doesn't matter of the remainder of the original poster's time, the deficit from his PIC + SIC total, is "total time," as the person doing the interview made the determination that the original poster's experience level was insufficient.

Yes, total time is an amalgum of PIC, SIC, instruction received, and also FE time, for those so inclined.

An employer, however, or the employers representatives who do the hiring, interviewing, and determination regarding eligibility, is not obligated to abide a minimum value (even if published as a hiring minimum), or to recognize any given time. If an employer chooses to recognize only time in Cessna and Piper, but exclude any time in a Mooney, that's up to the employer. If the employer hates green airplanes and won't count time spent in green airplanes, then that's the employers call.

It's also well to recognize that hiring minimums are just that. Minimums. The only thing that counts on arrival at the interview site are competitive minimums. One won't get to the interview site without meeting the hiring minimums, but if everyone else interviewing that day has a type rating and fifteen thousand hours in type, and a masters degree in interplanetary botany with a specialty in submerged weaving of precolumbian basketry, then so be it. That's the standard against which one must compete. Never mind that one meets the bare minimums. The bar has shifted and one must compete against the others in the room. Competitive minimums. What those were a week ago, or next week, is irrelevant.