Originally Posted by OOfff

Could you give us an example of behavior a woman could exhibit that would strip her of her right not to be assaulted?

Originally Posted by Strenyakov

"He drugged me."
1. What was the drug?
1a. Why don't you know?
1b. What do you think the drug might be? Why?
1c. Were you drinking that night? What? How much?
1d. Do you have a drinking problem? How often do you drink?
1e. What were you drinking? What was he drinking?
1f. If you were to learn that the records of the bar showed that you had X drinks, would you have any reason dispute that?
1g. If you drank X drinks, do you think that would make you drunk?
1h. Have you ever had X drinks in a single night before?
1i. Who paid for your drinks?
1j. If this wasn't a date why would he be paying for the drinks?
1k. Who paid for the tickets to the hockey game?

2. Where would he get the drug?
3. Wouldn't it be a great risk for a pilot to cross into Canada, and back, with a date-rape drug?
4. Isn't the minimum penalty for possession of Rohypnol going into Canada 1 year in prison?
5. Isn't the penalty for simple possession of Rohypnol in the US a maximum of 3 years under federal law? And more in some states?

6. Have you ever made accusations of sexual assault in the past?

"Skywest must pay"

7. Why do you think Skywest should have any liability?
8. Did you know the captain was married before you went on this date? Why did you go?
9. What could Skywest have done?
10. Should Skywest prohibit crew members from going out together on layovers?
11.Why do you want Skywest punished, but not the person you say raped you?
12. Why did you wait several days before making a police report?
13. Why did the Edmonton police refuse to make an arrest?
14. You said you knew immediately when you woke up that you had been raped and drugged; why did you not go to be tested? Rohypnol can be detected in the blood for 60 hours, why was none detected? Why did you wait over 60 hours to be tested?
15. You went to court to get a restraining order against the Captain? Why did the judge refuse to give you the order?
16. When the police did not have enough evidence to do anything, when the court refused your requests, when you failed to gather evidence of being drugged, why should Skywest punish the Captain when he claims your interaction was consensual?

Originally Posted by Floy

I have been referring, repeatedly to this post in particular and other statements that have explicitly or implicitly placed the blame on the alleged victim.

When you are robbed at gunpoint in your store, you are not asked "why were you open at that time?"

When you are rear ended in your car you are not asked "why were you out driving your car?"

etc etc.

We live in a society where we men have dominated women for thousands of years. Our first reaction as men is to attempt to show why she deserved it or that she in fact may be the perpetrator.

Yet I would wager that the incidence of men being the perpetrators vs women scorned falsely accusing is likely 1000 to 1.

We don't know what happened. They both deserve to be able to tell the story. If he were falsely accused I hope he is able through channels, to seek compensation. But I am tired of hearing all the reasons that a woman actions prove she was not assaulted. An explicit yes is required period. A "contract" as you call it can not be entered in to when you are drunk. If the person assuming the contract has been made moves upon that assumption, they have committed a crime. Where are you guys talking about a man's responsibility to ensure that his partner is willing when she is fall down drunk and semi unresponsive? Yet that is the assumption all the same. She was half asleep and didn't say no. Therefore we males assume a binding agreement. Regardless of having women in my life whom I am protective of, I call BS on that.

I am now going back to lurking and will end on that note. Its been an enlightening discussion

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Keep in mind that if youre robbed you will have to produce or have evidence of that. You can’t simply state John Doe robbed me and expect him to be locked away and his life destroyed based on your statement alone.

Originally Posted by Excargodog

But this isn't about being locked up. This is a civil suit with discovery and a whole different set of rules of engagement. And the criteria for guilt is far lower, basically more probable than not. But that's just the legal part.

But the stakes are even higher for the accused and even winning the case may not be enough to undo the damage. Doesn't matter if you think that's fair or not. It's reality.

Unless he can prove his innocence the likelihood of his career continuing to progress to a major has just about vanished. What major wants - or needs - to take a chance on someone who has already been accused of non consensual sex by one coworker? That person is already damaged goods.

Anyone sleeping with a subordinate on a trip is tossing the dice for a career-ending incident. Doesn't matter if he was wrong, she was wrong, both were drunk, if it was a misunderstanding, or delayed remorse....

Your hope of a career in the majors will be a mort if it happens to you.

Originally Posted by NeverHome

I think you needed to finish reading my post. You know, where it says it’s never okay or agreeable to have rape or sexual assault occur. You know, that part.

But again there are consequences for behaviors, good and bad. That’s the point I’m driving at. Incidentally, that’s the very point most individuals miss. In today’s world people need to be cognizant of their actions (both men and women). The biggest F U in the world is this: you will likely never know the consequences of your actions until after the fact.

Originally Posted by OOfff

Why even talk about the consequences? You’re just trying to make victim blaming more vague. There is no behavior which justifies or excuses the consequence of getting sexually assaulted. Nobody is missing your point, it’s simply an asinine “point” to be making

Originally Posted by NeverHome

First off, all adult people must understand consequences. This is important. For both men and women. Going out and having a good time is all well and good, but being cognizant of consequences will help people avoid problems. Its risk mitigation. Threat and error evaluation.

Im guessing your reading comprehension is very poor. No where have I blamed the victim. Not once. Further I’m not trying to make anything vague. Rather I am pointing out a fact that too many people in today’s world is missing. And guess what? If this information were utilized there would be a lot less people in very bad situations. Think about this. Really contemplate this.

I do agree with you, there is no justifiable reason to have anyone sexually assaulted. I have made that clear already.

Lastly, my point is not asinine. Im saying people need to be cognizant of their actions and the consequences that may follow. You know, by stating that adults need to be adults. You however want to dismiss this. That I do not understand.

Originally Posted by NeverHome

First off, all adult people must understand consequences. This is important. For both men and women. Going out and having a good time is all well and good, but being cognizant of consequences will help people avoid problems. Its risk mitigation. Threat and error evaluation.

Im guessing your reading comprehension is very poor. No where have I blamed the victim. Not once. Further I’m not trying to make anything vague. Rather I am pointing out a fact that too many people in today’s world is missing. And guess what? If this information were utilized there would be a lot less people in very bad situations. Think about this. Really contemplate this.

I do agree with you, there is no justifiable reason to have anyone sexually assaulted. I have made that clear already.

Lastly, my point is not asinine. Im saying people need to be cognizant of their actions and the consequences that may follow. You know, by stating that adults need to be adults. You however want to dismiss this. That I do not understand.