Floy

All good points but lets be clear. There is no "personal responsibility" here. I have a right to drink too much and not wake up naked in bed next to someone that I didn't expressly agree to wake up next to.

My wife, daughters, mother, and sister all have a right to behave as they wish and not end up as victims. I wonder how many times I might have been taken advantage of if everytime in my youth that I drank too much I had to pay the price.

The responsibility is on US. The males to not behave like chimps. Scratch that...even apes dont do that to each other.

I dont know a thing about this case. Neither party should have been named. Thats bad. But the immediate response to blame the victim as if she doesnt have the right to go out with a guy, party and maybe even drink too much, without getting raped is the exact reason for the backlash that has all men on their heels right now.

I take responsibility. To act like a professional. I dont go out with any crewmember unless all are present. I wouldn't date where I work etc.

I hope the truth of this nasty thing comes out. But don't assume that if any woman ends up naked, bruised, and sexually assaulted, that they should have had better "personal responsibilty".

TimetoClimb

Three rules guys, just three!


Don't talk to reporters

Don't cross the picketline

Don't dip your stick in the company soup!

Excargodog

Good, bad, coulda, shoulda, woulda, - that isn't today's reality. The woman is suing the company under a Washington State law - the same one that the FO at Alaska is using, that holds employers responsible for assuring that junior people aren't sexually harassed by their supervisors. This is civil litigation and the standard of proof is far lower than in a criminal proceedings. AND IT IS IN THE COMMON DOMAIN, that is anyone can pull up the case filings.

And I think it is pretty much like Rickair states, while your PRESENT company may stick by you, because it is in their interests to do so, you have now become radioactive. Why should a major accept the risk of hiring a guy who has had one such allegation against him? Because even if the guy was innocent, he will already have one strike against him if this happens again, and clearly he MIGHT have done it and be prone to doing it again. Why take the chance?

Gentlemen, no rational guy in this day and age ought to be taking the professional risk of these type of relationships on layovers. Even if it's just a total misunderstanding, your future career could easily take a lethal hit.

Poser765

you grossly misunderstood what I meant when I said personal responsibility. My point that claiming to be drugged is a way to get yourself out of a consensual decision you might later regret. I'm not saying that's the case here. Not at all, and in no way am I victim blaming.

To assume he definitely raped this woman is just as bad as saying she made it up. That's the fine line to walk. All I'm really saying is we shouldn't pass judgment on a man when all we have is a woman's one sided report in a daily news site. He could have a completely different story to tell... And it could be totally full of crap, just like her story.

NeverHome

Gonna disagree here. Nobody has the right to behave any way they wish and not face consequences. Sometimes consequences result in good things. Sometimes not.

Consider this, drinking too much and getting behind the wheel for instance, nobody has that right. Incidentally nobody has the right to enter into an agreement, fulfill that agreement, then lie the next day saying they were never in agreement.

Don’t get me wrong, rape and sexual assault are never okay or agreeable. If the captain did initiate the Cosby 1 arrival than he deserves every thing coming to him. If he did not, then she is now the worst type of human being alive.

Floy

There is no assumption that he definitely raped her, or that she is a vindictive woman scorned. That's the whole point. Earlier there was a reference to a long and drawn out post that put up a point by point argument as to all the myriad reasons one should be skeptical as to why her story is suspect. One of the main points was "personal responsibility".

To immediately suspect either is in poor form. We simply don't know. But if one of the women in my life told me they had been raped after they drank with a friend, I wouldn't berate them for a lack of "personal responsibility". They should be able to drink with a friend without having to worry about being assaulted.

That said I am teaching my two girls never to drink more than one and never to accept a drink that they didn't pour themselves. That's how much I trust my own gender

Floy

I didn't say anything about putting others in danger simply because you think you have the right to drink then drive. You don't have that right. You do have the right however to go out and drink. To party, to even misbehave. This lack of judgement in no way gives others the right to victimize you simply because of your poor choices.

I am not saying that she is the victim or the perpetrator. Earlier posts went in the default direction of blaming the victim. We don't know what happened but its disgraceful that immediately upon hearing a story like this, all of us in our male superiority start poking holes at the person saying that they were victimized.

I also think that we are all too quick to pass judgement one way or the other. We have no idea what happened.

rickair7777

Could be anything from full-on Cosby, to a calculated setup to loot the SGU coffers. Or anything in between.

However... in most cases for normal people the threshold of reporting a rape is pretty high. I think most women would not report it if they had any doubt in their own minds. Possible exception if someone was observed and/or recorded in a very embarrassing situation, some women have been so ashamed they cried rape just to deflect the shame.

But in cases where nobody would have otherwise known anything happened, I think a woman would have to be pretty sure of what happened to report it. That's a major and painful step.

Very rare exceptions for shame deflection and premeditated scam. I tend to give benefit of the doubt to the woman unless there's evidence to the contrary. But the alleged perp still gets all the usual legal protections... I can believe the victim fully, but still believe the perp should not be punished based on weak evidence. That's the hard part about these cases... it's difficult to achieve the required or even a reasonable standard of proof. You can't convict someone with no proof, and probably shouldn't fire them either, although the threshold for firing or other employer action is probably lower than even civil preponderance of evidence.

OOfff

Could you give us an example of behavior a woman could exhibit that would strip her of her right not to be assaulted?

Bestglide

I wouldn’t call it “male superiority”as that statement is sexist in of itself.
I get that you have females in your life as we all do and are very defensive of them, but to label anyone for their opinion or life experiences is seemingly shallow.
Personally in the realm of my life experiences without knowing the facts I’m more abt to believe as someone stated above that the contract was changed the next morning leaning toward a me too payday. I’ve seen this many times in my career, unfortunately!
But if the said pilot pulled a Cosby in any way he should be prosecuted to the full extent.
The really sad part in all this is that it makes me unwilling to go out with anyone on a layover especially a member of the opposite sex.
Except for people I’ve become friends with over the years and trust.