News on the new Skywest pay package
06-12-2017, 09:43 PM
#491
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
The bottom line is this. The law of supply and demand rules. If XYZ airline posts a pilot job paying $20,000 a year, and they get 1,000 applicants, which was the case until a few years ago, that's how much the pilot is worth. The market dictates what we are worth like any other free market. Until recently airlines have had zero reason to pay any more. Pilots can stomp their feet all day. Pilots are their own worst enemies and not the sharpest tools in the shed.
They changed the system into this regional jet system. Salaries became so low that pilots were no longer being produced. In 2007 they finally hit the bottom where they were hiring with guys who only had 200 hours. I flew with one who was hired with 206, or maybe it was 211. Then the economy shrunk and pilots sat for 6 years. Very few new FOs and every pilot ended up being qualified to be a captain. So from 2014 until now new hires were being brought in and the ratio of captain qualified fell from 100% to 50%. FO were suddenly in short supply and the 1200 bonus went to 1500 then 3000 then 5000.
Finally, the other regionals increased their starting pay from $23 per hour to 36 per hour. Soon the bonus airlines upped their starting pay to the 36 per hour too. Then the bonuses started up again, all aimed at the first year people. Some regionals started losing too many pilots so Endeavor started paying every pilot a 20k per year bonus. The first year bonuses began to clime again, 7500, then 10,000, 12000.
Now there is a new problem that nobody is talking about, lack of Captains. Gojet has been hiring directly into the left seat as a combined bonus/recuiting/varying need for captains. Now, almost as soon as someone is qualified to fly as a captain with 1000 of 121 time, the person can hold captain. But nobody has the pilots not to expand.
So we now look at Air Wisconsin, they get their United deal but now need pilots. So they will give you a 31,000 bonus, 5000 on day one of training and 26000 when you finish IOE. If you have a type you get another 8k so your year one bonus is 39,000. And they have the flow through to United which will keep guys there until they flow.
Skywest, Trans States, Compass, Gojet, Republic and others don't have the flow being used as a form of pay. Are these airlines supposed to be the base now, the lifetime regional jobs that provide stability to the regional model?
The market says the pay of others besides the first year pilots need to go up. A second year pilot at Skywest will get a 76 cent per hour raise. If he flies 900 hours for the year it is an increase of $684. Compare that to the 39,000 bonus, about 16%.
Why should a second or third year guy stay at Skywest, or TSA, or Gojet, or Compass? Take the 31,000 or the 39,000 bonus and go to Air Wisconsin. You get the bonus and the Flow to United. Or go to Envoy, get the 22,000 bonus and the flow to American.
Why would Skywest pilots want to lock themselves into low wages for the next 5 years. No bonuses and no flow to a major. Not even keeping up with inflation. It is sad.
06-12-2017, 09:46 PM
#492
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
I hear Skywest Captains saying, 1. They have not read it, 2. They don't know what is in it, 3. They don't think the company will give them more.
06-13-2017, 05:14 AM
#493
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,544
I've been saying the market dictates since deregulation. I've watched salaries come down, I've watched the "B Scales", I watched when the Eastern Pilots went on strike believing the American people would rally to support their 6 figure salaries when the average yearly salary was less than 20,000.
They changed the system into this regional jet system. Salaries became so low that pilots were no longer being produced. In 2007 they finally hit the bottom where they were hiring with guys who only had 200 hours. I flew with one who was hired with 206, or maybe it was 211. Then the economy shrunk and pilots sat for 6 years. Very few new FOs and every pilot ended up being qualified to be a captain. So from 2014 until now new hires were being brought in and the ratio of captain qualified fell from 100% to 50%. FO were suddenly in short supply and the 1200 bonus went to 1500 then 3000 then 5000.
Finally, the other regionals increased their starting pay from $23 per hour to 36 per hour. Soon the bonus airlines upped their starting pay to the 36 per hour too. Then the bonuses started up again, all aimed at the first year people. Some regionals started losing too many pilots so Endeavor started paying every pilot a 20k per year bonus. The first year bonuses began to clime again, 7500, then 10,000, 12000.
Now there is a new problem that nobody is talking about, lack of Captains. Gojet has been hiring directly into the left seat as a combined bonus/recuiting/varying need for captains. Now, almost as soon as someone is qualified to fly as a captain with 1000 of 121 time, the person can hold captain. But nobody has the pilots not to expand.
So we now look at Air Wisconsin, they get their United deal but now need pilots. So they will give you a 31,000 bonus, 5000 on day one of training and 26000 when you finish IOE. If you have a type you get another 8k so your year one bonus is 39,000. And they have the flow through to United which will keep guys there until they flow.
Skywest, Trans States, Compass, Gojet, Republic and others don't have the flow being used as a form of pay. Are these airlines supposed to be the base now, the lifetime regional jobs that provide stability to the regional model?
The market says the pay of others besides the first year pilots need to go up. A second year pilot at Skywest will get a 76 cent per hour raise. If he flies 900 hours for the year it is an increase of $684. Compare that to the 39,000 bonus, about 16%.
Why should a second or third year guy stay at Skywest, or TSA, or Gojet, or Compass? Take the 31,000 or the 39,000 bonus and go to Air Wisconsin. You get the bonus and the Flow to United. Or go to Envoy, get the 22,000 bonus and the flow to American.
Why would Skywest pilots want to lock themselves into low wages for the next 5 years. No bonuses and no flow to a major. Not even keeping up with inflation. It is sad.
They changed the system into this regional jet system. Salaries became so low that pilots were no longer being produced. In 2007 they finally hit the bottom where they were hiring with guys who only had 200 hours. I flew with one who was hired with 206, or maybe it was 211. Then the economy shrunk and pilots sat for 6 years. Very few new FOs and every pilot ended up being qualified to be a captain. So from 2014 until now new hires were being brought in and the ratio of captain qualified fell from 100% to 50%. FO were suddenly in short supply and the 1200 bonus went to 1500 then 3000 then 5000.
Finally, the other regionals increased their starting pay from $23 per hour to 36 per hour. Soon the bonus airlines upped their starting pay to the 36 per hour too. Then the bonuses started up again, all aimed at the first year people. Some regionals started losing too many pilots so Endeavor started paying every pilot a 20k per year bonus. The first year bonuses began to clime again, 7500, then 10,000, 12000.
Now there is a new problem that nobody is talking about, lack of Captains. Gojet has been hiring directly into the left seat as a combined bonus/recuiting/varying need for captains. Now, almost as soon as someone is qualified to fly as a captain with 1000 of 121 time, the person can hold captain. But nobody has the pilots not to expand.
So we now look at Air Wisconsin, they get their United deal but now need pilots. So they will give you a 31,000 bonus, 5000 on day one of training and 26000 when you finish IOE. If you have a type you get another 8k so your year one bonus is 39,000. And they have the flow through to United which will keep guys there until they flow.
Skywest, Trans States, Compass, Gojet, Republic and others don't have the flow being used as a form of pay. Are these airlines supposed to be the base now, the lifetime regional jobs that provide stability to the regional model?
The market says the pay of others besides the first year pilots need to go up. A second year pilot at Skywest will get a 76 cent per hour raise. If he flies 900 hours for the year it is an increase of $684. Compare that to the 39,000 bonus, about 16%.
Why should a second or third year guy stay at Skywest, or TSA, or Gojet, or Compass? Take the 31,000 or the 39,000 bonus and go to Air Wisconsin. You get the bonus and the Flow to United. Or go to Envoy, get the 22,000 bonus and the flow to American.
Why would Skywest pilots want to lock themselves into low wages for the next 5 years. No bonuses and no flow to a major. Not even keeping up with inflation. It is sad.
06-13-2017, 02:08 PM
#496
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
I stand corrected. I did not understand the difference between the flow and the Career Path Program. With the CPP you have to interview with United and stay in their good graces.
Seems like they will go through Facebook to look for anyone who does not just take whatever he is given while at the regional. If you take a position contrary to what they want (such as, vote No to the contract extension), they can pull your United qualification away. I guess when they decide they don't really want to take people from their regionals they can pull most of the United-Qualified certifications away.
I guess we had better all learn how to cow-tow to the Man. 1984 has arrived.
Now I understand why there are certain people on this forum trying to move everyone over to Facebook. If you don't tow the company line they can get rid of you when they get the chance. I've learned some new things today.
Seems like they will go through Facebook to look for anyone who does not just take whatever he is given while at the regional. If you take a position contrary to what they want (such as, vote No to the contract extension), they can pull your United qualification away. I guess when they decide they don't really want to take people from their regionals they can pull most of the United-Qualified certifications away.
I guess we had better all learn how to cow-tow to the Man. 1984 has arrived.
Now I understand why there are certain people on this forum trying to move everyone over to Facebook. If you don't tow the company line they can get rid of you when they get the chance. I've learned some new things today.
06-13-2017, 06:58 PM
#497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,580
I stand corrected. I did not understand the difference between the flow and the Career Path Program. With the CPP you have to interview with United and stay in their good graces.
Seems like they will go through Facebook to look for anyone who does not just take whatever he is given while at the regional. If you take a position contrary to what they want (such as, vote No to the contract extension), they can pull your United qualification away. I guess when they decide they don't really want to take people from their regionals they can pull most of the United-Qualified certifications away.
I guess we had better all learn how to cow-tow to the Man. 1984 has arrived.
Now I understand why there are certain people on this forum trying to move everyone over to Facebook. If you don't tow the company line they can get rid of you when they get the chance. I've learned some new things today.
Seems like they will go through Facebook to look for anyone who does not just take whatever he is given while at the regional. If you take a position contrary to what they want (such as, vote No to the contract extension), they can pull your United qualification away. I guess when they decide they don't really want to take people from their regionals they can pull most of the United-Qualified certifications away.
I guess we had better all learn how to cow-tow to the Man. 1984 has arrived.
Now I understand why there are certain people on this forum trying to move everyone over to Facebook. If you don't tow the company line they can get rid of you when they get the chance. I've learned some new things today.
06-14-2017, 04:16 PM
#498
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
The thought police are out there watching what we all say.
I had a friend who was flying with Gojet and made a post on their "union forum", mildly against something the company wanted from the pilots. They fired him the very next day.
06-14-2017, 04:22 PM
#499
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 111
Damn there's gunna be a lot of fired Skywest pilots then lol
I would agree, that is the smart move. Until I saw all these posts trying to send people to the discussion on Facebook I did not even know that there was such a thing there.
The thought police are out there watching what we all say.
I had a friend who was flying with Gojet and made a post on their "union forum", mildly against something the company wanted from the pilots. They fired him the very next day.
The thought police are out there watching what we all say.
I had a friend who was flying with Gojet and made a post on their "union forum", mildly against something the company wanted from the pilots. They fired him the very next day.
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