News on the new Skywest pay package
06-03-2017, 08:33 AM
#292
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 52
Look what's happening to XJT? Do you want that here? They came to us early and offered us a raise in order to project costs for new flying. I know it's a pilots job to complain about everything, but at some point you have to be thankful we don't have the same problems as most other regionals. If you want to make more, there are other companies out there who sell their own tickets. They can do this, a contract carrier is limitied in what they can offer.
SkyWest is a great place to be on this part of the career totem pole. The deal is fair for who we are. I know contracts are juicy meat for complaining, but in any other profession if a boss offered you a raise you would take it and say thank you.
The absence of QOL improvements was the only thing missing. That being said, our work rules (aside from reserve) aren't that bad to begin with.
This "get all you can" mentality has doomed other airlines in the past. Let's not have that happen here..
SkyWest is a great place to be on this part of the career totem pole. The deal is fair for who we are. I know contracts are juicy meat for complaining, but in any other profession if a boss offered you a raise you would take it and say thank you.
The absence of QOL improvements was the only thing missing. That being said, our work rules (aside from reserve) aren't that bad to begin with.
This "get all you can" mentality has doomed other airlines in the past. Let's not have that happen here..
"Get all you can"
Man how about get even the tiniest bit more than the bare bones basic first offer from the company. Have any of you dummies that are rolling over exposing your soft underbellies bought or sold or done any business ever. I bet Car Salesman salivate when you come in. "So I guess I'll just pay the sticker price like it says, they wouldn't charge more than it's worth"
Give me a break. People like you are what is ruining the middle class in America. Or you're just managment shills like RJ.
06-03-2017, 08:40 AM
#294
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 72
But there are ppl who believe if we vote No OO won't buy airplanes and therefor mainline will have to do more flying in-house.
However that is a false narrative. A no vote will mean the company will comeback with a 2nd offer, one they likely already have ready to go just in case those pilots wise up a bit. And if that one passes, a couple days later they will announce their 120 plane order and amncd will still get his better schedule and his 1% better match on his 401k.
If it were up to me, I would put OOs feet to the fire. I want to see their 6th offer. The company would never agree to a contract that would hinder their ability to expand. This contract is nowhere close to that. Our goal with these negotiations should be to push the company just below that threshold to where they can satisfy investors, buy airplanes and pay us.
06-03-2017, 08:53 AM
#296
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
Skywest's Is Offering its Pilots Less Than NOTHING
Things I would consider if I were you.
In the past the incentive for pilots to take a pay cut, to forgo a pay increase was the offer of new airplanes. Rather than sitting as a first officer for 8 years that might come down to 4 or 5. Everyone took a pay decrease and some pilots would come out ahead with the faster upgrade.
Upgrade now is 9 months to 2 years and coming down. A few guys who want to upgrade in certain bases will get a much quicker upgrade but for the large majority of pilots the upgrade will pretty much be about the time they get the required 1000 121 time. So the promise of new planes adds nothing for most of the guys.
So working for less, working for less than inflation raises is a payout, a payout for every pilot.
The shortage of pilots has never been like this since Wilber and Orville first decided to expand and add a third pilot. Was it Wilber or Orville who started telling guys that if they work for free they will get more planes quickly.
RULE ONE- Know your value. There should be no captains in the United States flying regional airplanes making less than 110,000 per year. If you go to India you will make that much, if you go to China you will make that but in the US they want you to fly for 65000. The airlines have gotten together and decided they are going to hold fast to a pay scale, despite the market. Illegal but they accomplish it by not talking about it, they just do it.
RULE TWO - Know what the Guy before you received. Right now with 1 to 2 year upgrades pilot costs have plummeted for all the airlines. The higher paid pilots are moving on to the majors. The average pilot longevity has moved from maybe 10 years to 5. The airlines are benefiting by a sliding down on the pay scale of 5 years. Congratulations to them. So when a pilot upgrades in his second year he is going to make 65 per hour but he is replacing a pilot making 84 per hour.
RULE THREE - Don't Be a Prostitute - You are a pilot, you have a valuable skill that cost you a lot of money to learn. You don't need to get on your knees to get paid. Don't sell yourself short. They want you to replace a guy making 84 an hour. Why did that guy leave, because he was worth more and the airline was not willing to pay him what his value was. So you know you are worth what they were paying the other guy.
RULE FOUR - Know your Flaws- Pilots are fixers, they like to fix things and situations in order to look good to others. The airlines have psychological profiles of pilots. I have see them. They use these when battling and negotiating. They know you much better than you know yourself. There are even profiles of military pilots versus civilian pilots. They are much different personalities and also shaped differently due to their prior flying environments. Did you know that civilian pilots tend to go below the glideslope when transitioning from an ILS to visual while military guys tend to go above the glideslope and land a little longer. Airlines know your weaknesses in negotiations. Why do you think you fly for 43% more than the world market? Here are some of the reasons you will work for less: You hate not being the guy in charge and will work for less to change that. You want to help your boss. You want to be seen as working hard. You don't see being a first officer as really being a pilot. You think bigger airplanes means you are a better pilot. You think working at a regional you are not really seen as a pilot.
RULE FIVE - A pilot is a pilot. Flying an F-16 was not hard. (Take out all the aerial refueling, bombing, combat and all the other non airline stuff.) Flying a B-747 and B-727 were not hard, the airplane did what you told it to do. Flying B-767/757 were a little harder because you had to know how to fly like the B-747 and you had to know what the plane was doing and going to do. The same with the RJs now, there is more you have to know and more you have to watch. Fewer people to kill but a lot to watch. Stop thinking that you are not worth a lot more than 65 per flight hour. Uber pays 30 an hour.
Things I would consider if I were you.
In the past the incentive for pilots to take a pay cut, to forgo a pay increase was the offer of new airplanes. Rather than sitting as a first officer for 8 years that might come down to 4 or 5. Everyone took a pay decrease and some pilots would come out ahead with the faster upgrade.
Upgrade now is 9 months to 2 years and coming down. A few guys who want to upgrade in certain bases will get a much quicker upgrade but for the large majority of pilots the upgrade will pretty much be about the time they get the required 1000 121 time. So the promise of new planes adds nothing for most of the guys.
So working for less, working for less than inflation raises is a payout, a payout for every pilot.
The shortage of pilots has never been like this since Wilber and Orville first decided to expand and add a third pilot. Was it Wilber or Orville who started telling guys that if they work for free they will get more planes quickly.
RULE ONE- Know your value. There should be no captains in the United States flying regional airplanes making less than 110,000 per year. If you go to India you will make that much, if you go to China you will make that but in the US they want you to fly for 65000. The airlines have gotten together and decided they are going to hold fast to a pay scale, despite the market. Illegal but they accomplish it by not talking about it, they just do it.
RULE TWO - Know what the Guy before you received. Right now with 1 to 2 year upgrades pilot costs have plummeted for all the airlines. The higher paid pilots are moving on to the majors. The average pilot longevity has moved from maybe 10 years to 5. The airlines are benefiting by a sliding down on the pay scale of 5 years. Congratulations to them. So when a pilot upgrades in his second year he is going to make 65 per hour but he is replacing a pilot making 84 per hour.
RULE THREE - Don't Be a Prostitute - You are a pilot, you have a valuable skill that cost you a lot of money to learn. You don't need to get on your knees to get paid. Don't sell yourself short. They want you to replace a guy making 84 an hour. Why did that guy leave, because he was worth more and the airline was not willing to pay him what his value was. So you know you are worth what they were paying the other guy.
RULE FOUR - Know your Flaws- Pilots are fixers, they like to fix things and situations in order to look good to others. The airlines have psychological profiles of pilots. I have see them. They use these when battling and negotiating. They know you much better than you know yourself. There are even profiles of military pilots versus civilian pilots. They are much different personalities and also shaped differently due to their prior flying environments. Did you know that civilian pilots tend to go below the glideslope when transitioning from an ILS to visual while military guys tend to go above the glideslope and land a little longer. Airlines know your weaknesses in negotiations. Why do you think you fly for 43% more than the world market? Here are some of the reasons you will work for less: You hate not being the guy in charge and will work for less to change that. You want to help your boss. You want to be seen as working hard. You don't see being a first officer as really being a pilot. You think bigger airplanes means you are a better pilot. You think working at a regional you are not really seen as a pilot.
RULE FIVE - A pilot is a pilot. Flying an F-16 was not hard. (Take out all the aerial refueling, bombing, combat and all the other non airline stuff.) Flying a B-747 and B-727 were not hard, the airplane did what you told it to do. Flying B-767/757 were a little harder because you had to know how to fly like the B-747 and you had to know what the plane was doing and going to do. The same with the RJs now, there is more you have to know and more you have to watch. Fewer people to kill but a lot to watch. Stop thinking that you are not worth a lot more than 65 per flight hour. Uber pays 30 an hour.
06-03-2017, 09:04 AM
#297
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 2
The current airline industry cycle has created plenty of growth and movement at SkyWest. We have a very reasonable 2-3 year upgrade with airplanes still being delivered and homes for aircraft coming off contract.
If there is potential growth of around 100 airplanes out there who else has the staffing and infrastructure to take that on rapidly? If the major does want that flying contracted out they'll just have to pay a little more to SkyWest or bring it in house (win win).
The ERJ is the CRJ replacement. By 2022 most CRJ pilots will have transitioned. Yet we still have a higher CRJ900 vs E175 payscale. In other words you'll take a paycut when transitioning. The whole CRJ vacation/user time at 200 rates does not hold either. Equal seats, weights and routes. The payscales should be banded together. Fix this issue now.
How much control will we have of our new independent 401k. Will it still be the excessive fee Wells Fargo. Will management still be able to change fund options when they get a better deal? Will it still be 100% vested for those of you that will be at a major in 3 years?
Pending an economic event or oil prices going up, nothing is gonna change in the next couple years. It's time for management to pay a little better (there is a wide margin between contracted out cost and in-house cost...lots of room). SGU knows this and thats the reason for the pay package now...a preemptive strike to lock us in. If they have trouble hiring they'll just raise the new hire package. Everyone else who made this place possible for the new hires will be locked in.
Let's play a little poker, we're holding some good cards.
Plan to make a career here at SkyWest but get out.
If there is potential growth of around 100 airplanes out there who else has the staffing and infrastructure to take that on rapidly? If the major does want that flying contracted out they'll just have to pay a little more to SkyWest or bring it in house (win win).
The ERJ is the CRJ replacement. By 2022 most CRJ pilots will have transitioned. Yet we still have a higher CRJ900 vs E175 payscale. In other words you'll take a paycut when transitioning. The whole CRJ vacation/user time at 200 rates does not hold either. Equal seats, weights and routes. The payscales should be banded together. Fix this issue now.
How much control will we have of our new independent 401k. Will it still be the excessive fee Wells Fargo. Will management still be able to change fund options when they get a better deal? Will it still be 100% vested for those of you that will be at a major in 3 years?
Pending an economic event or oil prices going up, nothing is gonna change in the next couple years. It's time for management to pay a little better (there is a wide margin between contracted out cost and in-house cost...lots of room). SGU knows this and thats the reason for the pay package now...a preemptive strike to lock us in. If they have trouble hiring they'll just raise the new hire package. Everyone else who made this place possible for the new hires will be locked in.
Let's play a little poker, we're holding some good cards.
Plan to make a career here at SkyWest but get out.
06-03-2017, 09:21 AM
#298
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,252
Im not management..(I said i was voting yes.. if i was management, I wouldn't be able to vote...) and its funny how attacking some people are. I haven't said one derogatory comment about any "NO" voter... Just share my opinion on what i think... And every regional is taking pay cuts, if you you take inflation into account...
06-03-2017, 09:45 AM
#299
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 52
Im not management..(I said i was voting yes.. if i was management, I wouldn't be able to vote...) and its funny how attacking some people are. I haven't said one derogatory comment about any "NO" voter... Just share my opinion on what i think... And every regional is taking pay cuts, if you you take inflation into account...
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