British Airways fire at LAS
09-11-2015, 10:05 AM
#51
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09-11-2015, 10:41 AM
#52
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The airflow while airborne would have kept the fire blowing aft away from the fuselage and wing root.
Now if they got airborne and couldn't get the fire out, then it's a totally different barrel of monkeys.
If they were airborne and the bottle extinguished the fire, they would have come back around OEI and landed. Replace the engine and continue on.
Now.....I'm not saying they should have continued to airborne with the fire indication. I am only saying if they got the warning post V1, it would have been entirely different.
09-11-2015, 10:50 AM
#53
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The wing root only looks that way because it sat and took the brunt of the fire with the parking brake set.
The airflow while airborne would have kept the fire blowing aft away from the fuselage and wing root.
Now if they got airborne and couldn't get the fire out, then it's a totally different barrel of monkeys.
If they were airborne and the bottle extinguished the fire, they would have come back around OEI and landed. Replace the engine and continue on.
Now.....I'm not saying they should have continued to airborne with the fire indication. I am only saying if they got the warning post V1, it would have been entirely different.
The airflow while airborne would have kept the fire blowing aft away from the fuselage and wing root.
Now if they got airborne and couldn't get the fire out, then it's a totally different barrel of monkeys.
If they were airborne and the bottle extinguished the fire, they would have come back around OEI and landed. Replace the engine and continue on.
Now.....I'm not saying they should have continued to airborne with the fire indication. I am only saying if they got the warning post V1, it would have been entirely different.
But this was not your stock engine failure/fire...it grenaded and the containment failed. Other things may have been damaged including Hyd, flight controls, and fuel lines outside the nacelle. Might have been ugly. I'm still not convinced that wing root burn-through was due to flames from the nacelle, CFR got there pretty quick, almost seems like there was fuel flow at the root. Anybody know where the 777 fuel plumbing runs?
09-11-2015, 12:18 PM
#54
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The view showing pax walking away from left-aft shows fire burning near the forward-left excape slide, so I think fuel was puddling from the leak....wherever that was.
I'm thinking turbine fail, cuts through main fuel line AND wiring for the bottles.
Wing-root fairings are usually lightweight fiberglass, so not surprising they are burned.
Pretty certain the main fuel lines com out of the center tank, and are fed by internal lines from the wings (abutting tanks).
There does appear to be a small hole in the wing box near the landing light, but 1. not certain that is part of the tank and 2. If that was the cause, or caused-by, the fire.
I'm thinking turbine fail, cuts through main fuel line AND wiring for the bottles.
Wing-root fairings are usually lightweight fiberglass, so not surprising they are burned.
Pretty certain the main fuel lines com out of the center tank, and are fed by internal lines from the wings (abutting tanks).
There does appear to be a small hole in the wing box near the landing light, but 1. not certain that is part of the tank and 2. If that was the cause, or caused-by, the fire.
09-12-2015, 06:17 AM
#56
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The PIC may also apply judgement. Ie, a very high-speed abort may be OK with a very long runway (where the calculated V1 is well after Vr). In my turboprop days there were certain prop fail modes where I would have put it back down after V1/Vr if I thought I had enough runway. Props can kill you better and faster than any turbojet.
What about a low-vis TO on a contaminated RWY? If it's not a long runway, stopping performance is frankly unpredictable, regardless of what the book says. Might be best to continue rather than do a high speed abort and probably go off the end (and then have CFR trying to find the wreckage in a blizzard). Depends on what the problem is.
09-12-2015, 09:10 AM
#57
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Fwiw...from the last article I posted...
It is thought the fire suppression system failed
Sorry Doc. One example doesn't cover the vast majority. But just to make an aviation expert like you (no ATP, just for starters) happy, I should've said "placed much more emphasis on the importance of it and why", as the video you cite barely makes mention of it and certainly does not point out why it is important. Yes, the public is that stupid and need to be told.
It is thought the fire suppression system failed
I can assure you that the vast majority DO mention it somewhere.
For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=115&v=WqAAQ0ZZMyw
For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=115&v=WqAAQ0ZZMyw
Sorry Doc. One example doesn't cover the vast majority. But just to make an aviation expert like you (no ATP, just for starters) happy, I should've said "placed much more emphasis on the importance of it and why", as the video you cite barely makes mention of it and certainly does not point out why it is important. Yes, the public is that stupid and need to be told.
09-13-2015, 06:06 AM
#59
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Sorry Doc. One example doesn't cover the vast majority. But just to make an aviation expert like you (no ATP, just for starters) happy, I should've said "placed much more emphasis on the importance of it and why", as the video you cite barely makes mention of it and certainly does not point out why it is important. Yes, the public is that stupid and need to be told.
So as I was saying, the vast majority DO mention leaving no bags behind IME. Trying to go into the reasons for this would be difficult in a 5 minute briefing, but I agree public does need education.
In fact, the British Airways brief mentioned this back in the 2000's and still does in the 777 on this flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=118&v=dcRqfZ5nO2A
Props to the pilot for the high energy abort and rapid evac and ARFF response. Even better outcome than the SFO incident.
09-13-2015, 06:38 AM
#60
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Grow up, buddy. I wasn't aware you need an ATP to comment on safety videos. Perhaps my lowly commercial certificate will suffice.
So as I was saying, the vast majority DO mention leaving no bags behind IME. Trying to go into the reasons for this would be difficult in a 5 minute briefing, but I agree public does need education.
In fact, the British Airways brief mentioned this back in the 2000's and still does in the 777 on this flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=118&v=dcRqfZ5nO2A
Props to the pilot for the high energy abort and rapid evac and ARFF response. Even better outcome than the SFO incident.
So as I was saying, the vast majority DO mention leaving no bags behind IME. Trying to go into the reasons for this would be difficult in a 5 minute briefing, but I agree public does need education.
In fact, the British Airways brief mentioned this back in the 2000's and still does in the 777 on this flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=118&v=dcRqfZ5nO2A
Props to the pilot for the high energy abort and rapid evac and ARFF response. Even better outcome than the SFO incident.
FWIW, jetBlue doesn't mention it in their demo. (I commute on them regularly.)
I don't position as much as I used to but don't recall United or Delta (the two that I've been on most recently---domestically) mentioning it either. When I flew Lufthansa frequently, their demo was similar to the BA one.
It IS always addressed on the SIC. Unfortunately, most people don't look at them. THOSE are the people who will be clueless and will need the most help evacuating.
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