Near Miss Yikes!
06-08-2013, 07:18 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
Near Miss Yikes!
I am a busy full time instructor and perhaps I have taken ATC for granted. Today I was shooting approaches with a good student, well I was the eyes and he was under foggles. I must have been looking at the plate and lone behold a green and white mind you LSA of some sort passed left to right at the same altitude. Let's just say that he was pretty darn close...
Yes he had the right of way and I kick myself for not going through a good scan. We were at 3,000 ft. doing a missed approach procedure in class D airspace. He appeared to be at the same altitude. We had just got done climbing. The class D extended from surface to 2900 MSL. I immediately queried ATC. ATC said he only saw a secondary target no altitude. hmm. and he asked me what type of a/c it was, what's the point now?
The incident occurred perhaps 10 miles from an international (class D) airport and many an airliner fly the same route we were on so I am not sure if ATC would have chimed in and advised an airliner about a possible target? Well they do have TCAS so... No ATC was not busy at the time and I was maybe a little annoyed he missed it, but ultimately I blame myself.
The lesson learned is that yes we do take ATC for granted, they are only human and especially in the role of CFI one can easily miss a lot, but in the future I would change the way I conduct in the cockpit. Traffic collision avoidance is a main priority IFR or VFR.
Yes he had the right of way and I kick myself for not going through a good scan. We were at 3,000 ft. doing a missed approach procedure in class D airspace. He appeared to be at the same altitude. We had just got done climbing. The class D extended from surface to 2900 MSL. I immediately queried ATC. ATC said he only saw a secondary target no altitude. hmm. and he asked me what type of a/c it was, what's the point now?
The incident occurred perhaps 10 miles from an international (class D) airport and many an airliner fly the same route we were on so I am not sure if ATC would have chimed in and advised an airliner about a possible target? Well they do have TCAS so... No ATC was not busy at the time and I was maybe a little annoyed he missed it, but ultimately I blame myself.
The lesson learned is that yes we do take ATC for granted, they are only human and especially in the role of CFI one can easily miss a lot, but in the future I would change the way I conduct in the cockpit. Traffic collision avoidance is a main priority IFR or VFR.
06-08-2013, 07:36 PM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: N90-EWR
Posts: 91
I am a busy full time instructor and perhaps I have taken ATC for granted. Today I was shooting approaches with a good student, well I was the eyes and he was under foggles. I must have been looking at the plate and lone behold a green and white mind you LSA of some sort passed left to right at the same altitude. Let's just say that he was pretty darn close...
Yes he had the right of way and I kick myself for not going through a good scan. We were at 3,000 ft. doing a missed approach procedure in class D airspace. He appeared to be at the same altitude. We had just got done climbing. The class D extended from surface to 2900 MSL. I immediately queried ATC. ATC said he only saw a secondary target no altitude. hmm. and he asked me what type of a/c it was, what's the point now?
The incident occurred perhaps 10 miles from an international (class D) airport and many an airliner fly the same route we were on so I am not sure if ATC would have chimed in and advised an airliner about a possible target? Well they do have TCAS so... No ATC was not busy at the time and I was maybe a little annoyed he missed it, but ultimately I blame myself.
The lesson learned is that yes we do take ATC for granted, they are only human and especially in the role of CFI one can easily miss a lot, but in the future I would change the way I conduct in the cockpit. Traffic collision avoidance is a main priority IFR or VFR.
Yes he had the right of way and I kick myself for not going through a good scan. We were at 3,000 ft. doing a missed approach procedure in class D airspace. He appeared to be at the same altitude. We had just got done climbing. The class D extended from surface to 2900 MSL. I immediately queried ATC. ATC said he only saw a secondary target no altitude. hmm. and he asked me what type of a/c it was, what's the point now?
The incident occurred perhaps 10 miles from an international (class D) airport and many an airliner fly the same route we were on so I am not sure if ATC would have chimed in and advised an airliner about a possible target? Well they do have TCAS so... No ATC was not busy at the time and I was maybe a little annoyed he missed it, but ultimately I blame myself.
The lesson learned is that yes we do take ATC for granted, they are only human and especially in the role of CFI one can easily miss a lot, but in the future I would change the way I conduct in the cockpit. Traffic collision avoidance is a main priority IFR or VFR.
In any case, as a VFR aircraft, YOU ALWAYS have responsibility to see and avoid. ATC, and TCAS are nice tools to help, and most of the time those 2 together combined to be an incredible aid to give you a heads up, but you should never let your guard down.
The reason ATC asked you about type after the fact is..we want to know what it is, so we can have a better picture to present to the next aircraft that may go through there. I've had gliders, or hot air balloons that do not show on my radar reported, and I will issue a heads up warning to any other aircraft following the one making the initial report.
06-08-2013, 09:56 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 480
Everyone makes mistakes. Pilots serve to mitigate the inherent hazards of flight the best they can. I've had aircraft close to me that I should've seen a mile away, albeit not this close.
Before any of the trolls come in here and flame you, I'd like to commend you for knowing what you did wrong and having the cojones to use your story to serve as a friendly reminder that we all must stay vigilant.
It takes a pilot of the correct mold to understand how they made a common mistake, fess up to it among their peers and vow to fix it.
Stay safe! My scanning for traffic will be extra vigilant tomorrow.
Before any of the trolls come in here and flame you, I'd like to commend you for knowing what you did wrong and having the cojones to use your story to serve as a friendly reminder that we all must stay vigilant.
It takes a pilot of the correct mold to understand how they made a common mistake, fess up to it among their peers and vow to fix it.
Stay safe! My scanning for traffic will be extra vigilant tomorrow.
06-09-2013, 12:30 PM
#4
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,013
Unless everyone is under positive control there is no reasonable expectation that atc will guarantee separation. See and avoid is not perfect either, it provides a certain level of safety but is far from foolproof. Blind spots, optical phenomenon, Pilot workload all degrade the effectiveness of see and avoid and they cannot be eliminated.
06-09-2013, 04:13 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
Thank you gentlemen it is so easy to take atc for granted. Needless to say my scan during the last two days have been very thorough and I will continue to do so. We were in IMC for about an hour today and I had a rather uneasy feeling, but in that case I trust atc! Keep the scan going dear friends!!
06-09-2013, 04:23 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,648
VFR flying is...well...VFR flying. I have had many close encounters despite having a vigilant scan. Anyone who has flown in the south for any period of time knows that during the summer, the haze can cut visibility down to 3 miles or less and it can be very difficult to pick out light colored aircraft until they are right next to you.
Close calls serve as a good reminder, but you will probably have many more if you continue to squawk 1200 and maybe even if you don't.
Close calls serve as a good reminder, but you will probably have many more if you continue to squawk 1200 and maybe even if you don't.
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