Captain Abandoning His Ship
01-15-2012, 11:42 AM
#1
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Captain Abandoning His Ship
Overhead Bin - Captain ignored pleas that he return to capsized cruise ship, official says
Everyone must have heard about the Costa Concordia sinking after hitting some rather large rocks that Capt. Schettino claimed were not on the maps he used. A French tourist reported seeing him in one of the first lifeboats headed towards land.
This guy seems very different from Sully. Is there a similar tradition in aviation that the captain goes down with the ship? But then again, these are two entirely different industries.
To be fair, how could he possibly know if all 4200+ people are safely out? Is he supposed to man the stations and lower the lifeboats himself? Is it entirely his fault that the company did not properly train the crew in cases of emergency?
My husband and I discussed sailing on the Costa Concordia later this year out of Venice. Good thing we made other plans; doesn't look like the Concordia will be seaworthy again anytime soon. I'm just glad the loss of life was not as great as it could have been.
Everyone must have heard about the Costa Concordia sinking after hitting some rather large rocks that Capt. Schettino claimed were not on the maps he used. A French tourist reported seeing him in one of the first lifeboats headed towards land.
This guy seems very different from Sully. Is there a similar tradition in aviation that the captain goes down with the ship? But then again, these are two entirely different industries.
To be fair, how could he possibly know if all 4200+ people are safely out? Is he supposed to man the stations and lower the lifeboats himself? Is it entirely his fault that the company did not properly train the crew in cases of emergency?
My husband and I discussed sailing on the Costa Concordia later this year out of Venice. Good thing we made other plans; doesn't look like the Concordia will be seaworthy again anytime soon. I'm just glad the loss of life was not as great as it could have been.
01-15-2012, 01:09 PM
#2
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Oh...,. It'll be fine. Just pull it out of the water, drain the water, polish it up.... She'll look like new. If your worried about the moldy smell, get a cabin on the port side. Those looked ok.
01-15-2012, 05:27 PM
#4
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I thought I heard that the Captain told passengers to not abandon ship?
Update- I read that the accident was caused by human error(pilot error) and I found some photos that show this.
Update- I read that the accident was caused by human error(pilot error) and I found some photos that show this.
Last edited by mmaviator; 01-15-2012 at 07:34 PM.
01-15-2012, 07:54 PM
#5
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2LT Kingsley
Not the Captain, but how about this airman who went down with the ship?
Medal of Honor Recipients - World War II (G-L)
Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Corps, 97th Bombardment Group, 15th Air Force. Place and date: Ploesti Raid, Rumania, 23 June 1944. Entered service at. Portland, Oreg. Birth: Oregon. G.O. No.: 26, 9 April 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty, 23 June 1944 near Ploesti, Rumania, while flying as bombardier of a B17 type aircraft. On the bomb run 2d Lt. Kingsley's aircraft was severely damaged by intense flak and forced to drop out of formation but the pilot proceeded over the target and 2d Lt. Kingsley successfully dropped his bombs, causing severe damage to vital installations. The damaged aircraft, forced to lose altitude and to lag behind the formation, was aggressively attacked by 3 ME-109 aircraft, causing more damage to the aircraft and severely wounding the tail gunner in the upper arm. The radio operator and engineer notified 2d Lt. Kingsley that the tail gunner had been wounded and that assistance was needed to check the bleeding. 2d Lt. Kingsley made his way back to the radio room, skillfully applied first aid to the wound, and succeeded in checking the bleeding. The tail gunner's parachute harness and heavy clothes were removed and he was covered with blankets, making him as comfortable as possible. Eight ME-109 aircraft again aggressively attacked 2d Lt. Kingsley's aircraft and the ball turret gunner was wounded by 20mm. shell fragments. He went forward to the radio room to have 2d Lt. Kingsley administer first aid. A few minutes later when the pilot gave the order to prepare to bail out, 2d Lt. Kingsley immediately began to assist the wounded gunners in putting on their parachute harness. In the confusion the tail gunner's harness, believed to have been damaged, could not be located in the bundle of blankets and flying clothes which had been removed from the wounded men. With utter disregard for his own means of escape, 2d Lt. Kingsley unhesitatingly removed his parachute harness and adjusted it to the wounded tail gunner. Due to the extensive damage caused by the accurate and concentrated 20mm. fire by the enemy aircraft the pilot gave the order to bail out, as it appeared that the aircraft would disintegrate at any moment. 2d Lt. Kingsley aided the wounded men in bailing out and when last seen by the crewmembers he was standing on the bomb bay catwalk. The aircraft continued to fly on automatic pilot for a short distance, then crashed and burned. His body was later found in the wreckage. 2d Lt. Kingsley by his gallant heroic action was directly responsible for saving the life of the wounded gunner.
David Richard Kingsley, Second Lieutenant, US Army Air Corps
"Carrying me in his arms, Lieutenant Kingsley struggled to get me through the door into the bomb bay," Sullivan told the Oregonian newspaper the following year, when Kingsley was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. "He told me to be sure and pull the rip cord after I had cleared the ship," Sullivan continued. "I did and as I was floating down I saw the Fort fall off and go into a spin. It crashed, exploded and burned. "The last time I saw Lieutenant Kingsley, he was standing on the catwalk over the open bomb bay doors." All eight crewmen who jumped from the plane made it to the ground safely. Seven were captured and held as prisoners of war, while one was hidden by Bulgarians sympathetic to the allied cause. Sullivan, circa 1995 'Carrying me in his arms, Lieutenant Kingsley struggled to get me through the door into the bomb bay. ... The last time I saw Lieutenant Kingsley, he was standing on the catwalk over the open bomb bay doors.' The B-17 crashed near the village of Suhozem, a tiny remote village. A Bulgarian air commander on the ground watched the plane go down and went to the crash site. He found Kingsley's body in the cockpit. Witnesses on the ground said the plane circled before coming down, indicating Kingsley may have tried to save his own life by making a crash landing in a field. Bulgarian villagers buried Kingsley in a makeshift grave. He was later reinterred at Arlington National Cemetery.
Medal of Honor Recipients - World War II (G-L)
Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Corps, 97th Bombardment Group, 15th Air Force. Place and date: Ploesti Raid, Rumania, 23 June 1944. Entered service at. Portland, Oreg. Birth: Oregon. G.O. No.: 26, 9 April 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty, 23 June 1944 near Ploesti, Rumania, while flying as bombardier of a B17 type aircraft. On the bomb run 2d Lt. Kingsley's aircraft was severely damaged by intense flak and forced to drop out of formation but the pilot proceeded over the target and 2d Lt. Kingsley successfully dropped his bombs, causing severe damage to vital installations. The damaged aircraft, forced to lose altitude and to lag behind the formation, was aggressively attacked by 3 ME-109 aircraft, causing more damage to the aircraft and severely wounding the tail gunner in the upper arm. The radio operator and engineer notified 2d Lt. Kingsley that the tail gunner had been wounded and that assistance was needed to check the bleeding. 2d Lt. Kingsley made his way back to the radio room, skillfully applied first aid to the wound, and succeeded in checking the bleeding. The tail gunner's parachute harness and heavy clothes were removed and he was covered with blankets, making him as comfortable as possible. Eight ME-109 aircraft again aggressively attacked 2d Lt. Kingsley's aircraft and the ball turret gunner was wounded by 20mm. shell fragments. He went forward to the radio room to have 2d Lt. Kingsley administer first aid. A few minutes later when the pilot gave the order to prepare to bail out, 2d Lt. Kingsley immediately began to assist the wounded gunners in putting on their parachute harness. In the confusion the tail gunner's harness, believed to have been damaged, could not be located in the bundle of blankets and flying clothes which had been removed from the wounded men. With utter disregard for his own means of escape, 2d Lt. Kingsley unhesitatingly removed his parachute harness and adjusted it to the wounded tail gunner. Due to the extensive damage caused by the accurate and concentrated 20mm. fire by the enemy aircraft the pilot gave the order to bail out, as it appeared that the aircraft would disintegrate at any moment. 2d Lt. Kingsley aided the wounded men in bailing out and when last seen by the crewmembers he was standing on the bomb bay catwalk. The aircraft continued to fly on automatic pilot for a short distance, then crashed and burned. His body was later found in the wreckage. 2d Lt. Kingsley by his gallant heroic action was directly responsible for saving the life of the wounded gunner.
David Richard Kingsley, Second Lieutenant, US Army Air Corps
"Carrying me in his arms, Lieutenant Kingsley struggled to get me through the door into the bomb bay," Sullivan told the Oregonian newspaper the following year, when Kingsley was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. "He told me to be sure and pull the rip cord after I had cleared the ship," Sullivan continued. "I did and as I was floating down I saw the Fort fall off and go into a spin. It crashed, exploded and burned. "The last time I saw Lieutenant Kingsley, he was standing on the catwalk over the open bomb bay doors." All eight crewmen who jumped from the plane made it to the ground safely. Seven were captured and held as prisoners of war, while one was hidden by Bulgarians sympathetic to the allied cause. Sullivan, circa 1995 'Carrying me in his arms, Lieutenant Kingsley struggled to get me through the door into the bomb bay. ... The last time I saw Lieutenant Kingsley, he was standing on the catwalk over the open bomb bay doors.' The B-17 crashed near the village of Suhozem, a tiny remote village. A Bulgarian air commander on the ground watched the plane go down and went to the crash site. He found Kingsley's body in the cockpit. Witnesses on the ground said the plane circled before coming down, indicating Kingsley may have tried to save his own life by making a crash landing in a field. Bulgarian villagers buried Kingsley in a makeshift grave. He was later reinterred at Arlington National Cemetery.
Last edited by CheyDogFlies; 01-15-2012 at 09:27 PM.
01-17-2012, 07:36 AM
#6
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This doesn't bode well for the Captain of the ship.
Coastguard raged at liner captain, tape shows - Yahoo! News
USMCFLYR
Coastguard raged at liner captain, tape shows - Yahoo! News
USMCFLYR
01-17-2012, 09:16 AM
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The differences speak volumes
As details of the Costa Concordia accident emerge, it continues to astound me the vast difference in attitudes between aircraft pilots and this particular ship's captain and crew. The ship's crew is responsible for more lives, and a larger, more expensive craft, and yet seems less competent that most aircraft recreational private pilots (and even more so for professional pilots).
Reports are emerging that not only was the Concordia captain incredibly derelict, but that the crew was completely unable to respond to the emergency, operate the life-rafts, or evacuate passengers.
By way of contrast, I heard a talk by Cpt. Richard Champion de Crespigny, of Quantas 32, last week. His focus on dealing with the emergency to the absolute end was incredible. Even after the plane was safely stopped on the ground, the emergency didn't end until 3 hours later, but he and his full crew were fully engaged the entire time.
He spoke about the absolute importance of communicating honestly and directly with the passengers, something that was obviously sorely lacking on the Concordia.
I sincerely hope that there isn't a single pilot anywhere in the world with the attitude that Francesco Shettino seems to exhibit. Similarly, I really hope he is the worst of the worst on all the worlds sailing ships. I fear this may not be true.
Do you have insight on why airplane pilots and ship captains may approach their duties so incredibly differently?
Reports are emerging that not only was the Concordia captain incredibly derelict, but that the crew was completely unable to respond to the emergency, operate the life-rafts, or evacuate passengers.
By way of contrast, I heard a talk by Cpt. Richard Champion de Crespigny, of Quantas 32, last week. His focus on dealing with the emergency to the absolute end was incredible. Even after the plane was safely stopped on the ground, the emergency didn't end until 3 hours later, but he and his full crew were fully engaged the entire time.
He spoke about the absolute importance of communicating honestly and directly with the passengers, something that was obviously sorely lacking on the Concordia.
I sincerely hope that there isn't a single pilot anywhere in the world with the attitude that Francesco Shettino seems to exhibit. Similarly, I really hope he is the worst of the worst on all the worlds sailing ships. I fear this may not be true.
Do you have insight on why airplane pilots and ship captains may approach their duties so incredibly differently?
01-17-2012, 11:01 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
As details of the Costa Concordia accident emerge, it continues to astound me the vast difference in attitudes between aircraft pilots and this particular ship's captain and crew. The ship's crew is responsible for more lives, and a larger, more expensive craft, and yet seems less competent that most aircraft recreational private pilots (and even more so for professional pilots).
Reports are emerging that not only was the Concordia captain incredibly derelict, but that the crew was completely unable to respond to the emergency, operate the life-rafts, or evacuate passengers.
By way of contrast, I heard a talk by Cpt. Richard Champion de Crespigny, of Quantas 32, last week. His focus on dealing with the emergency to the absolute end was incredible. Even after the plane was safely stopped on the ground, the emergency didn't end until 3 hours later, but he and his full crew were fully engaged the entire time.
He spoke about the absolute importance of communicating honestly and directly with the passengers, something that was obviously sorely lacking on the Concordia.
I sincerely hope that there isn't a single pilot anywhere in the world with the attitude that Francesco Shettino seems to exhibit. Similarly, I really hope he is the worst of the worst on all the worlds sailing ships. I fear this may not be true.
Do you have insight on why airplane pilots and ship captains may approach their duties so incredibly differently?
Reports are emerging that not only was the Concordia captain incredibly derelict, but that the crew was completely unable to respond to the emergency, operate the life-rafts, or evacuate passengers.
By way of contrast, I heard a talk by Cpt. Richard Champion de Crespigny, of Quantas 32, last week. His focus on dealing with the emergency to the absolute end was incredible. Even after the plane was safely stopped on the ground, the emergency didn't end until 3 hours later, but he and his full crew were fully engaged the entire time.
He spoke about the absolute importance of communicating honestly and directly with the passengers, something that was obviously sorely lacking on the Concordia.
I sincerely hope that there isn't a single pilot anywhere in the world with the attitude that Francesco Shettino seems to exhibit. Similarly, I really hope he is the worst of the worst on all the worlds sailing ships. I fear this may not be true.
Do you have insight on why airplane pilots and ship captains may approach their duties so incredibly differently?
Let's not hang all sea-going Captains out to dry because of the actions of one. I'm sure that in the last 10 yers, somehwere, there has been a case of a cruise ship captain acting like a true professional in the face of adversity, as surely as I'm sure we could find a professional airplane crew having acted in a less than professional manner during rountine or emergency circumstances.
USMCFLYR
01-17-2012, 11:24 AM
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I have a stupid, non-nautically-informed question.
I went on a cruise a couple of years ago. It was a Caribbean cruise that left out of Galveston, Texas. We called in four ports (Cozumel, Roatan, Belize City, and Cancun).
In all four ports, a good thirty minutes before we would anchor, whether at a pier or in the open ocean, a small boat would come out and deliver a local pilot to I assume steer the ship into waters he was familiar with. We would always be well out in the ocean when this happened.
That was the first thing I thought when I saw the pictures is a local pilot obviously would have been much more familiar with the port. Are they not always used?
I went on a cruise a couple of years ago. It was a Caribbean cruise that left out of Galveston, Texas. We called in four ports (Cozumel, Roatan, Belize City, and Cancun).
In all four ports, a good thirty minutes before we would anchor, whether at a pier or in the open ocean, a small boat would come out and deliver a local pilot to I assume steer the ship into waters he was familiar with. We would always be well out in the ocean when this happened.
That was the first thing I thought when I saw the pictures is a local pilot obviously would have been much more familiar with the port. Are they not always used?
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