SWA Low Altitude Alert-TPA
07-24-2024, 08:08 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,992
Yes. I've got multiple transport types and a few years doing this. VNAV PATH makes me nervous on approach, I watch it like a hawk. If you're in PATH (or think you are) with the dirt dialed, better pay attention.
07-24-2024, 07:34 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,195
Yes. So probably not the near-catastrophic miss it's been made out to be. More like got unstable and went around. Although it did seem like the tower caught it, not the crew. Presumably GPWS would have chimed in eventually.
Yes. I've got multiple transport types and a few years doing this. VNAV PATH makes me nervous on approach, I watch it like a hawk. If you're in PATH (or think you are) with the dirt dialed, better pay attention.
Yes. I've got multiple transport types and a few years doing this. VNAV PATH makes me nervous on approach, I watch it like a hawk. If you're in PATH (or think you are) with the dirt dialed, better pay attention.
07-25-2024, 06:34 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 726
And by "setting dirt" you mean 0? Honest question. Because why would you do that if you can just set 500' and at least have one last THIN layer of protection?
I don't understand why 0 would ever be selected. Ever.
I don't understand why 0 would ever be selected. Ever.
07-25-2024, 10:45 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,195
This is Collins-specific and maybe type specific. In any approach with a vertical guidance (ILS, LPV, Baro VNAV) once the vertical guidance is captured, the FD/AP goes into VGP on the FMA. Where the altitude is set is no longer a constraint, so it goes to missed approach altitude, except in one case. Collins FMS database has visual approaches for every, or nearly every, runway at airports in the database. In that one case, it's a LNAV/VNAV mode and the FD/AP will respect any altitude selection. Put 500' in and at 500', it levels off and you lose the vertical VMC path to 50' over the threshold. It's a visual, not instrument approach, just giving guidance. In a visual, you have to set RWY to have the path to the threshold.
07-25-2024, 12:48 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
Yea I don't understand the setting of 0' in the altitude window for any reason, for any approach. Can somebody explain why some operators do this?
07-25-2024, 01:05 PM
#16
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,154
Just don’t let the FAA get a hold of the taxi speed data. Does SWA even have a taxi speed limitation on the 73? Aircraft can’t lift off the ground?
07-25-2024, 04:22 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2023
Posts: 397
I’ve never sat in a SWA Jumpseat but I’ve heard so many stories from those who have of unstable approaches. Almost every story was to “high and fast” sometimes well below 1000’. The mistake they’re making now is flying unstable approaches too low where ATC can “tell on them” by asking “WTF are you guys doing” over a recorded transmission after receiving an automated alt alert and Youtube does the rest.
Just don’t let the FAA get a hold of the taxi speed data. Does SWA even have a taxi speed limitation on the 73? Aircraft can’t lift off the ground?
Just don’t let the FAA get a hold of the taxi speed data. Does SWA even have a taxi speed limitation on the 73? Aircraft can’t lift off the ground?
07-25-2024, 05:53 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 750
I’ve never sat in a SWA Jumpseat but I’ve heard so many stories from those who have of unstable approaches. Almost every story was to “high and fast” sometimes well below 1000’. The mistake they’re making now is flying unstable approaches too low where ATC can “tell on them” by asking “WTF are you guys doing” over a recorded transmission after receiving an automated alt alert and Youtube does the rest.
Just don’t let the FAA get a hold of the taxi speed data. Does SWA even have a taxi speed limitation on the 73? Aircraft can’t lift off the ground?
Just don’t let the FAA get a hold of the taxi speed data. Does SWA even have a taxi speed limitation on the 73? Aircraft can’t lift off the ground?
07-26-2024, 04:20 AM
#19
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,584
This is Collins-specific and maybe type specific. In any approach with a vertical guidance (ILS, LPV, Baro VNAV) once the vertical guidance is captured, the FD/AP goes into VGP on the FMA. Where the altitude is set is no longer a constraint, so it goes to missed approach altitude, except in one case. Collins FMS database has visual approaches for every, or nearly every, runway at airports in the database. In that one case, it's a LNAV/VNAV mode and the FD/AP will respect any altitude selection. Put 500' in and at 500', it levels off and you lose the vertical VMC path to 50' over the threshold. It's a visual, not instrument approach, just giving guidance. In a visual, you have to set RWY to have the path to the threshold.
So, you put 500ft in, and once you're past the "FAF", you can set your missed approach altitude and it will still keep flying the approach to the 50ft TCH, unless you select TOGA.
07-26-2024, 09:23 AM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,992
Because it's SOP, so the FD and possibly AP don't level off on short final and completely destabilize your approach.
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