2StgTurbine

What is going on with ATC? It's like they aren't even in the same industry as us.

https://youtu.be/stTOjPHP1QQ?si=jPK3JO-FS96Okk_5

Long story short, a Frontier plane and a Piedmont plane are landing on intersecting runways. Frontier doesn't like the spacing and goes around right before the Tower orders Piedmont to go-around. The controller then complains to Frontier for going around because the controller was going to fix his mistake by making Piedmont go around... not having both go around.

Not only is the controller micro-managing Piedmont by issuing numerous turns and asking for speed changes that could interfere with a stabilized approach, but he also has a secret escape plan and doesn't let any of the other parties know what that is. How can a tower controller not be prepared for any airplane going around at any point? I've seen similar behavior with takeoff clearances. ATL will routinely clear planes to take off when the first plane hasn't even reached V1. Do they not realize that planes can abort a takeoff or landing at any moment?

I haven't had a controller in the jumpseat since 2012. They need more exposure to current industry standards of safety and risk management.

SonicFlyer

Yeah I've seen this too and it made me scratch my head. Also, wake turbulence.

Peoplemvr

"Planes" are for carpenters.

rickair7777

The correct terminolgy is "jet".

So nobody mistakes you for the regional prop pilots who wear the same uniform.

JamesNoBrakes

The proper venue for that is ATC QC, which is a branch of the FAA called AOV, in short, they are ATC Oversight, a seperate branch that works like Flight Standards. If you see something like that, you should find the number for your local center QC and ask them to review it. This is not punative and in no way would come back negatively on you. They exist to hold ATC accountable, because of too many of these exact situations. They sample ATC actions, but they also don't know what they don't know.

rickair7777

Bad link, can you post the youtube video title?

SonicFlyer

https://youtu.be/stTOjPHP1QQ

AirBear

Flying for Mesa then later NetJets I've landed on 35 at PHL a lot of times. And I've had more go arounds at PHL than all other airports combined. And I've done the frequent speed changes and "S" turns quite a few times. Classic case of too little concrete and too many jets.

60av8tor

Same. This was/is(?) a common occurrence with 27R and RJs on 35. They were generally pretty good with it, but never cared for s turns on final. I got used to watching the TCAS. 300' was about the limit and in the vid it's fluctuating between 2 and 300'. If I ever saw it bumping below 300', ga was pretty much guaranteed. The controller in the vid is cool as a cucumber and experienced, but I feel he waited a bit too long to call the ga - as evidenced by Frontier calling it. He would have given it to PDT, but again, he waited a bit too long IMO. It does get distracting for sure and not the preferred method.

sourdough44

Well, you gotta hawk that TCAS. Depending on what you are following(same runway), 3 miles is heightened awareness, 2.5 is red alert. If in Aruba, more than double that. Many pilots have varying timeliness with speed changes, on the G/S, it often takes a lot more than just dialing back.

The different runway thing, keep the S.A. dialed up.

Just like with driving a vehicle, one has to drive with allowances to make up for the deficiencies of others. BWTHDIK..