rickair7777

OK yes but a 1500+ hour professional turbine pilots should know enough to fly the damn gauges.

How low is SWA going for new hires these days, 1500 hours? Or 3-4k hours?

captjns

May be a bit of over expectation of a 1500 pilot with very little multi time and zero time in a real high performance turboprop. Head the threat off at the pass and bring it to the forefront.

AirBear

I was F/O on an A-320 one day going into LGA. Another A320 ahead of us on short final was told by tower to "go around, climb to 1000 feet". Anyone who has flown the A320 will realize how difficult it is to level off that quickly using the automation. The automation is likely going to negative G the jet unless the pilots quickly change to V/S and manual speed control bug. Or better yet just hand fly it and turn on the A/P when you're stable.

rickair7777

That's definitely a Soft GA scenario... levers to firewall to engage GA mode, then pull them right back again manually. Better hand-flown but if you can't quite manage that you can use the levers to minimize the VS and aggressive level-off. You do have to firewall 'em on the bus, but you don't have to leave them there.

captjns

Low level off go arounds are not difficult. A/P & A/T off and demonstrate the energy management that one was trained to do in such cases. By the time the go-around occurs that Captain should have some intuition of the F/O's ability if he wants to give him a chance to handle the maneuver.

dmspilot

People like to blame DEI, but there are plenty bad SWM pilots. Also I've seen captains botch go-arounds as well as follow errant flight directors. The real problem is the industry replaced skill and knowledge assessments with HR questions.

AirBear

Back around 1999 at USAirways we weren't supposed to use manual throttles on the bus. Then there was an abnormal where the crew lost most of the magic and had to use manual throttles. After that the company included a VFR pattern in the Sim with everything flown manually. Trying to use the AP for a go around to 1000 feet is probably more trouble than it's worth.

rickair7777

Yeah, even if you get it all setup in time, it's going to Mr. Toad's wild ride when it levels off at 1000 or even 2000 feet.

JohnBurke

I don't think anyone here has invoked the "DEI" boogey-man, have they? At least until now?

The problem goes beyond seeking HR answers to interview questions. There are a certain number of automation heroes today who couldn't fly their way out of a wet paper bag, which is why the increased emphasis on upset recovery, the past few years. Just as teleprompter loss criples the politician, the fading magenta line and hand flown (insert favorite maneuver here) seems to frighten the babababajesus out some (that is in no way a religious commentary, for those reaching for the report-this-post button).

A few years ago I picked up an airplane with a deferred autopilot. Rolls left and disconnects, it said. I asked if the crew(s) who reported the condition had tried trimming it out first. Nope. Just wrote it up. I found the trim with significant left aileron. Multiple write-ups about varying amounts of right aileron required. I enquired with those who made the write-ups. We glanced at the trim indicator, and it said x units, so the stories went. I consulted the trim indicator, and found the reference line, a plate secured with two small screws, loose. Enough so that it could be moved with the fingertip anywhere. Nobody ever bothered to check, or trim out the airplane by feel and engage the autopilot. In fact, there was nothing wrong with the autopilot, or trim system, save that little reference line; the pea-brained among us managed to be incapable of lifting a finger enough to give a reasonable writeup or see the problem, and couldn't fly beyond glancing at a number, and some of those were not low time individuals. Basic airmanship still works, for those who remember it, and for those who bothered to learn it. Neither is consistently true.