UA MAX rudder failure on landing
09-29-2024, 07:11 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,406
If I know how to read, and often I don't, I don't see a problem with their statement. I also think it might take a lot of force to overcome ice in a servo. Nice job using common sense on the fly to the crew involved.
09-29-2024, 07:19 AM
#12
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,205
I'm all about pointing out ways to un-screw the relationship between Boeing and aviators. I read their guidance a little differently, though. I paraphrase it like this: "Pilots can overpower our servos if they don't work right. Be careful you don't depart the runway if the rudder snaps free and goes full deflection.".
If I know how to read, and often I don't, I don't see a problem with their statement.
If I know how to read, and often I don't, I don't see a problem with their statement.
Bad News: Not sure if it's structurally rated for a violent hardover followed by an abrupt recovery involving a lot of rorce in the other direction. We know airbii don't like that.
09-29-2024, 01:54 PM
#13
Ignoring; John Burke.
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: Wandering
Posts: 236
I've seen a couple runaway departures in the sim, during an auto-land rollout where the pilot is fighting the autopilot with the rudder, and suddenly realizes he needs to hit that little button on the yoke. Yee-haw!
Which brings up an interesting question; how did the pilot not know the pedals were stuck until landing rollout? Was the autopilot coupled during descent, approach and landing?
yeah, bring on those pilot-less cockpits.🫣
Which brings up an interesting question; how did the pilot not know the pedals were stuck until landing rollout? Was the autopilot coupled during descent, approach and landing?
yeah, bring on those pilot-less cockpits.🫣
Last edited by hopp; 09-29-2024 at 02:04 PM.
09-29-2024, 02:16 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,406
Good news: Inertia, it's not a Super Cub. I doubt the plane would depart the runway for a momentary hard-over. Might be Mr. Toad's wild ride in the basic-economy seats.
Bad News: Not sure if it's structurally rated for a violent hardover followed by an abrupt recovery involving a lot of rorce in the other direction. We know airbii don't like that.
Bad News: Not sure if it's structurally rated for a violent hardover followed by an abrupt recovery involving a lot of rorce in the other direction. We know airbii don't like that.
09-30-2024, 02:28 PM
#16
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,291
No, you're not a test pilot.
It's a control jam. Force opposite the jam, as Boeing has said, for many years. A problem exists. Deal with it.
Why wouldn't anyone notice it prior to landing? Why would they? I meet few turbojet pilots who touch the rudders except takeoff, rollout, and a few on taxi.
Rollout, if the rudders don't move, there's a tiller. The sky is not falling, chicken little, and a bearing hiccup does not a test pilot make.
It's a control jam. Force opposite the jam, as Boeing has said, for many years. A problem exists. Deal with it.
Why wouldn't anyone notice it prior to landing? Why would they? I meet few turbojet pilots who touch the rudders except takeoff, rollout, and a few on taxi.
Rollout, if the rudders don't move, there's a tiller. The sky is not falling, chicken little, and a bearing hiccup does not a test pilot make.
09-30-2024, 04:11 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,354
10-02-2024, 05:15 AM
#18
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10-02-2024, 07:26 AM
#19
Prime Minister/Moderator
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10-02-2024, 08:13 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,507
Good news: Inertia, it's not a Super Cub. I doubt the plane would depart the runway for a momentary hard-over. Might be Mr. Toad's wild ride in the basic-economy seats.
Bad News: Not sure if it's structurally rated for a violent hardover followed by an abrupt recovery involving a lot of rorce in the other direction. We know airbii don't like that.
Bad News: Not sure if it's structurally rated for a violent hardover followed by an abrupt recovery involving a lot of rorce in the other direction. We know airbii don't like that.
Can the rudder handle it on the ground? Yes. Inflight? To do a doublet takes a concerted effort. Part of the problem with the A300-600R was it had the most sensitive rudder of all the airliners. APA Safety created a report on AA 587 that's worth reading.
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