QX2059 Jumpseater tries to shutdown engines

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10-29-2023, 01:17 PM

#411

JohnnyBekkestad

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Joined APC: Jul 2014

Position: B747 FO

Posts: 621

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinRest

No I am not incorrect. I am literally correct, you are incorrect.. What are you describing is involuntary manslaughter. Murder required intent, period. If Joe had written a letter beforehand and kept it in his pocket that his intent was to kill everyone on board, it would have been attempted murder. In murder, motive and intent are closely related. Neither his motive or his intent, was to kill everyone on the airplane.

I remember some Kids acting a fool, took down a stop sign and hung it up in their room.
well there was a crash and people died, they came after the kids for murder in the first and convicted them.

10-29-2023, 01:18 PM

#412

rickair7777

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Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim

Posts: 40,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugleeual

we know… he’s your friend ya da ya da ya da. But soon he’ll be your buddy in jail.

Professional acquaintance only. I'm not coming to his defense, just explaining how this will go probably go down. The more I think about it the jail part might actually come down to the medical application... THAT part is easy to prove.

10-29-2023, 01:23 PM

#413

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBekkestad

I remember some Kids acting a fool, took down a stop sign and hung it up in their room.
well there was a crash and people died, they came after the kids for murder in the first and convicted them.

You'll have to show me a link to that. What you describe is not murder, but manslaughter. Could still get you 10-20 easy.

It's also not relevant to this case, since nobody actually died. As I've said the extension of criminal sanctions beyond the original crime depends on actual, not hypothetical, results. Otherwise you're getting into the realm of thought crimes.

Edit: Found it. Manslaughter...

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/20/stop.sign/index.html

10-29-2023, 01:40 PM

#414

navigatro

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Posts: 1,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

I disagree.

If he can show (or convince a jury) that he was not of sound mind, then there's no intent, judicially speaking.

.

apples and oranges. "insanity" (or mental defect) has absolutely nothing to do with proving intent. it is a defense to a criminal charge.

10-29-2023, 01:45 PM

#415

navigatro

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Joined APC: Aug 2007

Posts: 1,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinRest

not sure what your background is, but you are out of your league. involuntary manslaughter is when your actions cause the death of another, but your intent is not to kill them example is you are driving and drop your phone, and drift into oncoming traffic when you pick it up, killing someone. Or you punch them in a bar fight, and they fall, hit their head, and die. But when you shoot someone (or shut off the engines in a plane), your intent is pretty clear. Of course intent must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, like all elements of a crime.

10-29-2023, 02:01 PM

#416

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by navigatro

apples and oranges. "insanity" (or mental defect) has absolutely nothing to do with proving intent. it is a defense to a criminal charge.

Not in CA, mental defect can negate intent.

But I don't know how OR or the fed would consider it, so there's that. Look it up if you want.

10-29-2023, 02:06 PM

#417

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by navigatro

But when you shoot someone (or shut off the engines in a plane), your intent is pretty clear.

Prosecution will claim exactly that. Defense will apparently claim otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by navigatro

Of course intent must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, like all elements of a crime.

Jury would have to decide. Although I suspect there will be a plea deal. Unless DA feels they need to throw the book due to high profile. But I think that would be risky for the DA... if they lose on murder, that's a public fail. If they do a deal with some light prison, that's a win. There are no victim's families to appease on this one... that can force a DA to do a hail mary because the political blowback would be worse than losing at trial.

10-29-2023, 10:11 PM

#418

Carebear

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Joined APC: Mar 2022

Posts: 192

Google what criminal charge stacking is. High profile case like this is a dictionary definition of any DA’s charges against anyone in this situation. The media was reporting this before anything was even coming out from the police department.

10-30-2023, 06:09 AM

#419

aeroengineer

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Joined APC: May 2016

Posts: 335

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carebear

Followed by "Trial Penalty". The amount of power given to the prosecution at all levels not to mention unlimited taxpayer money to play with is scary. Most states at least have their AGs face the voters every 4 years. As well as the DAs. That's about all the oversight there is. I think at the Federal level they're all appointed and I would dare say they are really untouchable.

Any legal types please correct me.

10-30-2023, 08:11 AM

#420

rickair7777

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Posts: 40,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroengineer

That's about right, can vary by state/locality. The President can remove US Attorneys... for any reason or no reason, and as you can imagine there have been political issues there.