QX2059 Jumpseater tries to shutdown engines
10-26-2023, 11:44 AM
#361
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
Sad to see FFDOs salivating at the chance to use their weapons to kill this guy. Luckily I do mostly international trips so the commandoes have to leave their sidearms at home (and before you flip a lid, I’m a multiple gun owner and have a California CCW license).
This was not that a 9/11 scenario. From all sounds of it, he snapped out it enough to comply, walk out of the flight deck when instructed, and then told the FA himself that he needs to be in cuffs for others safety.
This was not that a 9/11 scenario. From all sounds of it, he snapped out it enough to comply, walk out of the flight deck when instructed, and then told the FA himself that he needs to be in cuffs for others safety.
10-26-2023, 12:30 PM
#363
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
Discharging fire agent into a nacelle does not require a boroscope inspection. None of the agent goes in the engine core (inside the engine).
If an engine was shut down for a suspected fire or fire indication, then yes, it would require inspection, but not for fire agent use: for a suspected fire and subsequent possible damage.
10-26-2023, 12:45 PM
#364
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,115
For those who believe this should cause a revision in jumpseat policies…
Where would you have rather this happened:
1. With this individual as a jumpseater where he was outnumbered two to one by guys who WEREN’T acting irrational?
2. With this individual as a CA with only an FO (or potentially only an FA with the FO on a potty break) to deal with his irrationality?
H€||, from a safety standpoint you coukd make a better argument for going back to a three pilot cockpit like back in the FE days than you could to ban jumpseaters, based on this event.
Where would you have rather this happened:
1. With this individual as a jumpseater where he was outnumbered two to one by guys who WEREN’T acting irrational?
2. With this individual as a CA with only an FO (or potentially only an FA with the FO on a potty break) to deal with his irrationality?
H€||, from a safety standpoint you coukd make a better argument for going back to a three pilot cockpit like back in the FE days than you could to ban jumpseaters, based on this event.
10-26-2023, 02:29 PM
#365
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Posts: 2,283
Counter argument:
Anyone had an alert jumpseater prompt the active crew when they screwed up a clearance? Put the wrong restriction in an FMS? Kept you awake when you’re on day 5 with someone you can’t find a single common generic topic to spitball with?
(Full confession: I’ve been on both sides of this).
How about United 232, where an off duty pilot was called up, manipulated flight controls and saved hundreds of lives?
This OP event was an extreme outlier. Jumpseaters are generally neutral inputs, but are technically crew and can/do contribute far more regularly than the general public knows.
The FAA (probably) knows this and won’t go off half cocked.
Jumpseaters increase safety.
Anyone had an alert jumpseater prompt the active crew when they screwed up a clearance? Put the wrong restriction in an FMS? Kept you awake when you’re on day 5 with someone you can’t find a single common generic topic to spitball with?
(Full confession: I’ve been on both sides of this).
How about United 232, where an off duty pilot was called up, manipulated flight controls and saved hundreds of lives?
This OP event was an extreme outlier. Jumpseaters are generally neutral inputs, but are technically crew and can/do contribute far more regularly than the general public knows.
The FAA (probably) knows this and won’t go off half cocked.
Jumpseaters increase safety.
10-26-2023, 09:16 PM
#367
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 290
Agree with you about this, though it isn't just a west coast phenomenon. It certainly is the worst in big west coast cities but people all over the US are dying because their drugs (e.g., cocaine, heroin, etc) are laced with stuff like fentanyl, which can kill you very quickly if you don't have narcan. I'm sure this guy will be getting every single drug test in the book. If the drugs he took were laced with anything, they'll know. With that said, mushrooms are pretty powerful on their own. We don't know if he even micro-dosed or took too much, and as others have pointed out, drugs like shrooms and LSD can have permanent after effects and can affect people in very different ways. All you have to do is read 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas' to understand the wildly different, sometimes permanent effects that hallucinogens can have depending on the person. They are not something to experiment with if you've got a job with a lot of responsibility for other people's lives.
10-26-2023, 09:51 PM
#368
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A shack in Kailua
Posts: 298
I don't recall citing that book as "factual based scientific research". I was using it as an example because it's a well known book about using hallucinogens in the 1970's that most people have heard of, and an entertaining read at that. I'm not well versed on recent peer reviewed articles/studies relating to the effects of psilocybe cubensis, but I did grow up in a city besieged by drugs, and I've seen friends die from fentanyl.
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