Republic TA
02-14-2014, 05:32 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Chris's Closet
Posts: 485
The same thing was said about our 100 seat E-190s...in the 2003 contract no one envisioned us flying anything that size, but somehow over the course of a "ten year" contract it happened.
02-14-2014, 05:57 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 516
Lady, you clearly don't work at RAH, so how about you leave your condescending comments to yourself. It is not a matter of immaturity, but frustration. Frustration from a pilot group who have been repeatedly been used and abused. I have to say, it must be nice from your Brown seat that you make a comment like that.
Things are changing in this segment of aviation, and it would be nice to have some support. We are NOT flying 19 seat turbo-prop airplanes anymore, and we REFUSE to be compensated like it! Between XJET and Eagle, thousands of pilots and their leadership have told management that we deserve better. If we are going to be stuck in this "regional" world for an indefinite period as upward mobility is styfled, then we deserve our piece of the pie. Long GONE are the 5 year commuter "dues". So the pay structure needs to go as well!
The people that created the "RJ" world by voting off the scope, this is your Frankenstein. But I will be dammed if we allow the sub-par pay structure and quality of life to continue at RAH. Call it what you will, "Jetblue or better" proposals, but the pilots of S5, YX, and CHQ have stood by each other not to allow for concessions. We have been operating 70+ seat aircraft before anyone else, and trying like hell to get compensated for it. It has not been an easy road, but we are still trying. So we will read, and I presume say NO to this TA. Vote like you will be stuck here, and this contract will last 10 years. FUPM!
Things are changing in this segment of aviation, and it would be nice to have some support. We are NOT flying 19 seat turbo-prop airplanes anymore, and we REFUSE to be compensated like it! Between XJET and Eagle, thousands of pilots and their leadership have told management that we deserve better. If we are going to be stuck in this "regional" world for an indefinite period as upward mobility is styfled, then we deserve our piece of the pie. Long GONE are the 5 year commuter "dues". So the pay structure needs to go as well!
The people that created the "RJ" world by voting off the scope, this is your Frankenstein. But I will be dammed if we allow the sub-par pay structure and quality of life to continue at RAH. Call it what you will, "Jetblue or better" proposals, but the pilots of S5, YX, and CHQ have stood by each other not to allow for concessions. We have been operating 70+ seat aircraft before anyone else, and trying like hell to get compensated for it. It has not been an easy road, but we are still trying. So we will read, and I presume say NO to this TA. Vote like you will be stuck here, and this contract will last 10 years. FUPM!
I am not a Republic pilot, I am an ExpressJet pilot. I thank you guys/gals for the jumpseat rides you have given me over the years and I can sympathize with the misery that you have endured over the last 7 years working with a substandard pilot contract. I can understand that one would want positive changes in working conditions immediately. But I am going to ask you to realize what message you will be sending if this contract is ratified. The day after the brave pilots of Eagle voted down their agreement, a TA is reached that "[allows the company] to remain competitive as [management] pursues new business opportunities.”" Take a wildass guess at whose expense the new business opportunities are going to come from?
I will emphasize that as an ExpressJet pilot, I have absolutely no right to tell a Republic pilot how to vote on their contract that does not immediately affect me. However, I am going to ask you to please consider the events that you will be setting in motion if you were to ratify this deal. The Eagle pilot group has already been burned once in this situation before. Last summer, they were asked to take further concessions including a B scale. The pilot group refused admirably and had every expectation that no other pilot group would take such a crappy deal. However, they were wrong and PSA undercut them by signing a concessionary deal of their own, temporarily killing a movement in the regional industry to “stop the whipsaw.” Now yesterday, the Eagle/Envoy MEC again rejected another concessionary deal even though it meant the future of their jobs is in serious jeopardy. Collectively, Eagle and ExpressJet are comprise approximately 8,000 pilots and 50% of the regional airline industry – and we have said no to fear and concessions.
Improve the working conditions on the flying that you already possess, but please do not vote for this deal if it means growing your airline at the expense of Eagle’s destruction. With the reality of shorter term CPAs, the halted whipsaw is going to resume and the downward pressure on our wages will increase, most likely setting back the once in a generation opportunity to improve our working conditions. How can you expect to be able to look an Eagle guy/gal in the eye for the next decade to come if their company goes belly up? At a bare minimum ask your reps to coordinate some sort of special arrangement for the Eagle pilot group who stuck their necks out for the industry, if in the event your airline grows at their expense. If not, then they will be under genuine pressure to reexamine their concessionary AIP that they just turned down. If they accept cuts, then you will also be sucked into the same direction.
-an Acey pilot who gives a ****** about this fu***ng industry
.
I will emphasize that as an ExpressJet pilot, I have absolutely no right to tell a Republic pilot how to vote on their contract that does not immediately affect me. However, I am going to ask you to please consider the events that you will be setting in motion if you were to ratify this deal. The Eagle pilot group has already been burned once in this situation before. Last summer, they were asked to take further concessions including a B scale. The pilot group refused admirably and had every expectation that no other pilot group would take such a crappy deal. However, they were wrong and PSA undercut them by signing a concessionary deal of their own, temporarily killing a movement in the regional industry to “stop the whipsaw.” Now yesterday, the Eagle/Envoy MEC again rejected another concessionary deal even though it meant the future of their jobs is in serious jeopardy. Collectively, Eagle and ExpressJet are comprise approximately 8,000 pilots and 50% of the regional airline industry – and we have said no to fear and concessions.
Improve the working conditions on the flying that you already possess, but please do not vote for this deal if it means growing your airline at the expense of Eagle’s destruction. With the reality of shorter term CPAs, the halted whipsaw is going to resume and the downward pressure on our wages will increase, most likely setting back the once in a generation opportunity to improve our working conditions. How can you expect to be able to look an Eagle guy/gal in the eye for the next decade to come if their company goes belly up? At a bare minimum ask your reps to coordinate some sort of special arrangement for the Eagle pilot group who stuck their necks out for the industry, if in the event your airline grows at their expense. If not, then they will be under genuine pressure to reexamine their concessionary AIP that they just turned down. If they accept cuts, then you will also be sucked into the same direction.
-an Acey pilot who gives a ****** about this fu***ng industry
.
02-14-2014, 07:25 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 869
I am not a Republic pilot, I am an ExpressJet pilot. I thank you guys/gals for the jumpseat rides you have given me over the years and I can sympathize with the misery that you have endured over the last 7 years working with a substandard pilot contract. I can understand that one would want positive changes in working conditions immediately. But I am going to ask you to realize what message you will be sending if this contract is ratified. The day after the brave pilots of Eagle voted down their agreement, a TA is reached that "[allows the company] to remain competitive as [management] pursues new business opportunities.”" Take a wildass guess at whose expense the new business opportunities are going to come from?
I will emphasize that as an ExpressJet pilot, I have absolutely no right to tell a Republic pilot how to vote on their contract that does not immediately affect me. However, I am going to ask you to please consider the events that you will be setting in motion if you were to ratify this deal. The Eagle pilot group has already been burned once in this situation before. Last summer, they were asked to take further concessions including a B scale. The pilot group refused admirably and had every expectation that no other pilot group would take such a crappy deal. However, they were wrong and PSA undercut them by signing a concessionary deal of their own, temporarily killing a movement in the regional industry to “stop the whipsaw.” Now yesterday, the Eagle/Envoy MEC again rejected another concessionary deal even though it meant the future of their jobs is in serious jeopardy. Collectively, Eagle and ExpressJet are comprise approximately 8,000 pilots and 50% of the regional airline industry – and we have said no to fear and concessions.
Improve the working conditions on the flying that you already possess, but please do not vote for this deal if it means growing your airline at the expense of Eagle’s destruction. With the reality of shorter term CPAs, the halted whipsaw is going to resume and the downward pressure on our wages will increase, most likely setting back the once in a generation opportunity to improve our working conditions. How can you expect to be able to look an Eagle guy/gal in the eye for the next decade to come if their company goes belly up? At a bare minimum ask your reps to coordinate some sort of special arrangement for the Eagle pilot group who stuck their necks out for the industry, if in the event your airline grows at their expense. If not, then they will be under genuine pressure to reexamine their concessionary AIP that they just turned down. If they accept cuts, then you will also be sucked into the same direction.
-an Acey pilot who gives a ****** about this fu***ng industry
.
I will emphasize that as an ExpressJet pilot, I have absolutely no right to tell a Republic pilot how to vote on their contract that does not immediately affect me. However, I am going to ask you to please consider the events that you will be setting in motion if you were to ratify this deal. The Eagle pilot group has already been burned once in this situation before. Last summer, they were asked to take further concessions including a B scale. The pilot group refused admirably and had every expectation that no other pilot group would take such a crappy deal. However, they were wrong and PSA undercut them by signing a concessionary deal of their own, temporarily killing a movement in the regional industry to “stop the whipsaw.” Now yesterday, the Eagle/Envoy MEC again rejected another concessionary deal even though it meant the future of their jobs is in serious jeopardy. Collectively, Eagle and ExpressJet are comprise approximately 8,000 pilots and 50% of the regional airline industry – and we have said no to fear and concessions.
Improve the working conditions on the flying that you already possess, but please do not vote for this deal if it means growing your airline at the expense of Eagle’s destruction. With the reality of shorter term CPAs, the halted whipsaw is going to resume and the downward pressure on our wages will increase, most likely setting back the once in a generation opportunity to improve our working conditions. How can you expect to be able to look an Eagle guy/gal in the eye for the next decade to come if their company goes belly up? At a bare minimum ask your reps to coordinate some sort of special arrangement for the Eagle pilot group who stuck their necks out for the industry, if in the event your airline grows at their expense. If not, then they will be under genuine pressure to reexamine their concessionary AIP that they just turned down. If they accept cuts, then you will also be sucked into the same direction.
-an Acey pilot who gives a ****** about this fu***ng industry
.
great post
02-14-2014, 08:11 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: pilot
Posts: 584
I am a former RAH pilot. I'm glad to hear you guys have a contract to consider. I encourage all of you to hold the line on with this vote. Make sure the language is solid and doesn't allow for the loopholes the company takes advantage of in the current CBA. There were two occasions during my employment with republic that I resigned over the phone with Bart over scheduling BS. Oddly enough both times he ignored my resignation and the "creative" interpretation of the CBA by crew scheduling went away.
The management there is not unique in the regional market. They lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. I would suggest you review the contract as if you are entering an agreement with a Pimp. Try to imagine how a pimp would take advantage of one of his "employees" while you read the new contract. If a pimp could not find a way to interpret the contract language to screw you then you might be safe from Brian and company.
I did my part by removing one more pilot from the pool of the willing. The "pilot shortage" is IMO largely caused by people like me that have the tshirt and left for greener pastures and less people training.
It's up to you guys now to hold the line.
Good luck to you all.
The management there is not unique in the regional market. They lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. I would suggest you review the contract as if you are entering an agreement with a Pimp. Try to imagine how a pimp would take advantage of one of his "employees" while you read the new contract. If a pimp could not find a way to interpret the contract language to screw you then you might be safe from Brian and company.
I did my part by removing one more pilot from the pool of the willing. The "pilot shortage" is IMO largely caused by people like me that have the tshirt and left for greener pastures and less people training.
It's up to you guys now to hold the line.
Good luck to you all.
02-14-2014, 08:17 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 869
I am a former RAH pilot. I'm glad to hear you guys have a contract to consider. I encourage all of you to hold the line on with this vote. Make sure the language is solid and doesn't allow for the loopholes the company takes advantage of in the current CBA. There were two occasions during my employment with republic that I resigned over the phone with Bart over scheduling BS. Oddly enough both times he ignored my resignation and the "creative" interpretation of the CBA by crew scheduling went away.
The management there is not unique in the regional market. They lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. I would suggest you review the contract as if you are entering an agreement with a Pimp. Try to imagine how a pimp would take advantage of one of his "employees" while you read the new contract. If a pimp could not find a way to interpret the contract language to screw you then you might be safe from Brian and company.
I did my part by removing one more pilot from the pool of the willing. The "pilot shortage" is IMO largely caused by people like me that have the tshirt and left for greener pastures and less people training.
It's up to you guys now to hold the line.
Good luck to you all.
The management there is not unique in the regional market. They lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. I would suggest you review the contract as if you are entering an agreement with a Pimp. Try to imagine how a pimp would take advantage of one of his "employees" while you read the new contract. If a pimp could not find a way to interpret the contract language to screw you then you might be safe from Brian and company.
I did my part by removing one more pilot from the pool of the willing. The "pilot shortage" is IMO largely caused by people like me that have the tshirt and left for greener pastures and less people training.
It's up to you guys now to hold the line.
Good luck to you all.
hahaha well put
02-14-2014, 11:42 PM
#59
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
A duty or trip rig is to ensure you get paid, even if your schedule is really inefficient. A duty rig of 2.5:1 means you get paid 1 hour of credit for every 2.5 hours you're on duty, regardless of flight time. Same with a trip rig, but it's "time away from base" (TAFB) instead of duty.
I'm currently on a trip that is 10:58 of block time, 19:20 duty time, and 47:32 TAFB. Based on our rigs, I get paid the greater of three numbers. My company has a 2:1 duty rig and a 4:1 trip rig. I get either the block time, half the duty, or a quarter of the TAFB. For example, I have a 30 hour overnight. This helps compensate me for that. This trip is worth 11:53, based on time away from base.
In the regional industry, 2:1 and 4:1 is pretty much the standard. Both Horizon and Air Wisconsin have these numbers. At many legacy carriers, you'll see something like 2:1 and 3.5:1. Smaller numbers are better. The rumored TA for RAH is 2.5:1 and 4.2:1. Crappy.
I'm currently on a trip that is 10:58 of block time, 19:20 duty time, and 47:32 TAFB. Based on our rigs, I get paid the greater of three numbers. My company has a 2:1 duty rig and a 4:1 trip rig. I get either the block time, half the duty, or a quarter of the TAFB. For example, I have a 30 hour overnight. This helps compensate me for that. This trip is worth 11:53, based on time away from base.
In the regional industry, 2:1 and 4:1 is pretty much the standard. Both Horizon and Air Wisconsin have these numbers. At many legacy carriers, you'll see something like 2:1 and 3.5:1. Smaller numbers are better. The rumored TA for RAH is 2.5:1 and 4.2:1. Crappy.
02-15-2014, 03:51 AM
#60
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
Those C-series rates are ABHORRENT!!!
Good Lord... please, PLEASE do NOT screw up this industry even more.
This aircraft was designed to compete with B-737NG, A320, etc. This is not a regional airliner by any means.
Yes, I know "mainline scope won't allow it..." but isn't it funny how we progressed from DHC-8's to EMB-190's flown by regional airlines in a relatively short time frame? Do you trust the management to not bypass or otherwise obtain relief from scope from mainline groups to operate these aircraft?
Even though this aircraft hasn't been introduced into the service yet, don't "regionalize" it or think it somehow won't make it into the regional airline market, especially if you accept ridiculous regional airline rates for it. Your management will find a way to make it happen, either in the US or abroad.
The rates for this aircraft should more closely match Hawaiian's B-717 rates (which has about 9 fewer seats than your proposed C-series) - it's not Delta's 717 rates, but it's not your abortion EMB-190 rates either.
Don't let this horse out of the barn because you failed to study history of your own industry.
Good Lord... please, PLEASE do NOT screw up this industry even more.
This aircraft was designed to compete with B-737NG, A320, etc. This is not a regional airliner by any means.
Yes, I know "mainline scope won't allow it..." but isn't it funny how we progressed from DHC-8's to EMB-190's flown by regional airlines in a relatively short time frame? Do you trust the management to not bypass or otherwise obtain relief from scope from mainline groups to operate these aircraft?
Even though this aircraft hasn't been introduced into the service yet, don't "regionalize" it or think it somehow won't make it into the regional airline market, especially if you accept ridiculous regional airline rates for it. Your management will find a way to make it happen, either in the US or abroad.
The rates for this aircraft should more closely match Hawaiian's B-717 rates (which has about 9 fewer seats than your proposed C-series) - it's not Delta's 717 rates, but it's not your abortion EMB-190 rates either.
Don't let this horse out of the barn because you failed to study history of your own industry.
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