Republic TA
03-02-2014, 08:43 AM
#251
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 197
The "lowlights" are probably these. The NMB, who was fed up with you before and had parked you because of CM's antics, will park you again. For a lot longer. So you'll get to keep the current contract and since the NMB won't release you, despite what CM thinks...you'll have no leverage to demand anything.
And ALPA will doing handstands because if this passes, it means they have been lying to their regional members about negotiations, and now they'll have to get serious about negotiating for their members or risk losing them. If it fails...big win for them because they can say to their folks, "See?..we told you so. There's nothing out there we can get for you."
For a contract that is a 4 year deal that allows for you to reengage at the table in 36 months...a point where you will have SERIOUS leverage because of where the industry will be...or in 3 years, the NMB finally decides to bring you back to the table at your current rates and rules?
Figure it out.
And ALPA will doing handstands because if this passes, it means they have been lying to their regional members about negotiations, and now they'll have to get serious about negotiating for their members or risk losing them. If it fails...big win for them because they can say to their folks, "See?..we told you so. There's nothing out there we can get for you."
For a contract that is a 4 year deal that allows for you to reengage at the table in 36 months...a point where you will have SERIOUS leverage because of where the industry will be...or in 3 years, the NMB finally decides to bring you back to the table at your current rates and rules?
Figure it out.
03-02-2014, 08:50 AM
#252
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Cloud surfing
Posts: 492
Come on guys. Trifecta!
I realize this means gains for you guys, but "gains" doesn't mean it's what's actually deserved. You shouldn't want basically industry average or slightly better... you want WAY better because that's where we need to be headed. Work rules, pay, retirement, everything.
The time is now.
I realize this means gains for you guys, but "gains" doesn't mean it's what's actually deserved. You shouldn't want basically industry average or slightly better... you want WAY better because that's where we need to be headed. Work rules, pay, retirement, everything.
The time is now.
WAY improve pay, work rules, retirement and we shall see how real is all this BS shortage talk!
A lot of qualified pilots (close, at or exceeding ATP mins) out there watching and ready to join if the conditions are right.
03-02-2014, 11:47 AM
#253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Whats best right now is for everyone to pipe down on the rhetoric, get the full proposal, go to the roadshows, ask honest questions and make decisions based on common sense, not what so called experts who have already decided to vote "no" are telling everyone.
It wasn't that long ago that some of these same people were happily dropping a load in your messkit and trashing you. Now they're only too happy to tell you to do a Nancy Reagan and just say no.
Problem is they don't know the deal, but are happy to tell you what to think. Anyone who votes without knowing all the options and ramifications is hardly doing anything that is "best for the profession."
Vote with your brains, not your emotions.
03-02-2014, 11:53 AM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Those aren't loopholes, that language was specifically agreed to with the full knowledge there would be different ways of interpreting. Why its done that way, who knows but its always been that way.
You guys have waited so long for a contract, it is reasonable to assume that this next one will likely have to take you into 2025 or longer. It almost makes sense to table it for a few months, things are about to get really interesting. This is just the beginning of shortage, the shortage doesn't even kick in to full effect yet for 5 years let alone reach its peak. Six months from now airlines might be paying much higher then what you have negotiated.
Whatever you decide, the next airlines agreement is going to look to yours as the one to beat. And airline management might be ok with that being able to gloat how they have the best pay scales in the industry even though they only pay 10 cents more per hour then your new contract rates.
Then of course there is the C300 rates. Agreeing to this is like adding another rung on the ladder you have to climb to get to the majors. It's probably best to not even have an airplane like that on the property.
You guys have waited so long for a contract, it is reasonable to assume that this next one will likely have to take you into 2025 or longer. It almost makes sense to table it for a few months, things are about to get really interesting. This is just the beginning of shortage, the shortage doesn't even kick in to full effect yet for 5 years let alone reach its peak. Six months from now airlines might be paying much higher then what you have negotiated.
Whatever you decide, the next airlines agreement is going to look to yours as the one to beat. And airline management might be ok with that being able to gloat how they have the best pay scales in the industry even though they only pay 10 cents more per hour then your new contract rates.
Then of course there is the C300 rates. Agreeing to this is like adding another rung on the ladder you have to climb to get to the majors. It's probably best to not even have an airplane like that on the property.
What the heck. Hold out for the 747 rates that CM demanded. How'd that work with the NMB? Oh yeah.
Parked indefinitely. Who was it that got them to out it back in gear? Sure wasn't CM or BB.
03-02-2014, 12:02 PM
#255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,965
Don't understand what you are saying.
03-02-2014, 12:33 PM
#256
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 695
The TA is for 48 months with an opener at 36, which means they will be prepping beginning at 24 months. What kind of math is it that takes that to 2025? Something from ALPA? Because it sure seems that they have the most to lose here.
What the heck. Hold out for the 747 rates that CM demanded. How'd that work with the NMB? Oh yeah.
Parked indefinitely. Who was it that got them to out it back in gear? Sure wasn't CM or BB.
What the heck. Hold out for the 747 rates that CM demanded. How'd that work with the NMB? Oh yeah.
Parked indefinitely. Who was it that got them to out it back in gear? Sure wasn't CM or BB.
No one is asking for Delta+$1. While some things may appear improved at first glance, there is well documented precedence on the part of the RAH to exploit some major (i.e., show-stopping) issues that remain unaddressed in this new TA.
Perhaps you should allow us to make our own decision on this one.
03-02-2014, 01:47 PM
#257
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: recalled until the next round of right sizing to optimise synergies
Posts: 199
Weasel-Words
Read it cover to cover. Better yet, do a word search looking for open ended words and phrases.
Does it say "may" or does it say "shall?" If the former, apply it in context and assume you will lose the grievance.
Does it say "subject to?" If so, insert the words "the whim of" in order to achieve the full meaning of the clause.
Does it say "at the discretion of?" Change to read "under no circumstances."
These are only a few examples. Check carefully. Regardless of what is contained within the TA, the wording needs to be TIGHT. Without that, all that BB&Co have to do is say "That is not our interpretation" and it's off to Grievanceland with the lot of you. There is a rich and storied history.
Check carefully for the weasel words. They are evidence of bad faith at best and a con job at worst
Read it cover to cover. Better yet, do a word search looking for open ended words and phrases.
Does it say "may" or does it say "shall?" If the former, apply it in context and assume you will lose the grievance.
Does it say "subject to?" If so, insert the words "the whim of" in order to achieve the full meaning of the clause.
Does it say "at the discretion of?" Change to read "under no circumstances."
These are only a few examples. Check carefully. Regardless of what is contained within the TA, the wording needs to be TIGHT. Without that, all that BB&Co have to do is say "That is not our interpretation" and it's off to Grievanceland with the lot of you. There is a rich and storied history.
Check carefully for the weasel words. They are evidence of bad faith at best and a con job at worst
03-02-2014, 02:21 PM
#258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Exploring the world, oh yeah and I fly big planes!
Posts: 140
03-02-2014, 03:37 PM
#259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
What is your angle, and interest in this, and who do you work for? Clearly you have not been subject to the RAH roller coaster of the past 7 years since our last 4 year contract became amendable.
No one is asking for Delta+$1. While some things may appear improved at first glance, there is well documented precedence on the part of the RAH to exploit some major (i.e., show-stopping) issues that remain unaddressed in this new TA.
Perhaps you should allow us to make our own decision on this one.
No one is asking for Delta+$1. While some things may appear improved at first glance, there is well documented precedence on the part of the RAH to exploit some major (i.e., show-stopping) issues that remain unaddressed in this new TA.
Perhaps you should allow us to make our own decision on this one.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
