TillerEnvy

You truly are clueless. And the fact that we're giving a guy with Purdue in his name any credibility is shocking to me. Don't act like you know anything about this pilot group at all. It's offensive.

Same goes to RickT; biggest goon here.

PotatoChip

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them a goon.

Both parties make good points. You COULD debate them, or you could just resort to name calling. Now who should I believe? The people making coherent arguments, or the one acting like a 5th grader?

Further, RAH pilots do take blame. You can't go to work somewhere knowing exactly what the contract is, what the pay is, that they have been in negotiations forever etc and then turn around and complain about it relentlessly. It's akin to buying a house next to an airport and filing complaints about aircraft noise every day.

I HOPE RAH gets a better contract. But it won't just magically happen. Keep voting no all you want, that just keeps you under your current contract, which is fine by the owners. Good luck coming up with something that works.

SeaRider

God, I'm get so sick of this argument. For the majority of our pilot group, it hold absolutely no water. Unless you are addressing new-hires, you are just incorrect. Most of us have been here for a long time. I was hired a couple of months after the contract became amendable, and should in no way have expected negotiations to go as they have. Quit doing the typical pilot thing of blaming another pilot group for not having had a crystal ball years ago.

PotatoChip

Fine, but 2200 days of negotiations / 365 days a year = over SIX years of negotiations. That's more than just the new-hires. It does hold water. You are arguing that you went there thinking that a new contract would be voted in AND better sooner than later. That's your fault. You took that risk. I'm sorry that you didn't have a crystal ball. I didn't either (see furloughed).

I know pilots have their reasons for deciding to work at RAH, and that's fine. But don't go there, and then complain about the inability to receive a decent contract when the pilot group does seemingly little to attain it. What have you done? You personally and as a pilot group. Put up a website, voted no... And continued working under the same pathetic contract while securing new flying.

I'm not hating on everyone at RAH. I know people there, and again, understand reasons for gaining employment there. But I am concerned with individuals who aren't doing anything other than continuous complaints about how they get it up the bum by management there. What exactly did you expect?!?

lakehouse

the only thing I regret is the poor union at eagle. the failed leadership has created a pilot group that has no motivation for change or action.

However one thing we cant control is being undercut. Its even worst from a group that hides behind well they wont give us a new contract. At least the gojetz guys admit they are working a street corner.

We have the same lack of motivation at Eagle, but ours can at least be blamed on failed union leadership. We also have a fairly good contract, even after CH11, we dont just sit around pouting about it, yet reaping the benefits of it with new flying. Your either a saint or a sinner, you cant be both.

Also I never even applied to RAH, my friend worked there and told me not to apply. I went to Eagle for a long list of reasons, and I am happy I did.

package puppy

Something to consider, cancellation pay may become more of an issue once the inevitable cancellations occur due to the sequester mandated controller layoffs.

SeaRider

Nitpicking here, but you probably don't completely understand the seniority/relative seniority here. I was hired in early 08 and have the same relative seniority as someone in late 2010, as we were furloughed and integrated. We didn't hire much in 2011 and really only started bulk hiring last year. If you're addressing 'you know what you were getting into' to guys hired last year, fine, but most others have been here.

As for those hired recently, many are new to this business and don't understand the processes (hopefully boards like APC can help), and others have no other money making skills than piloting and have found themselves desperate for jobs. Or maybe they still have hope for this being a viable career and are committed to paying their (never ending) dues.

2200 days is too long, and many parties are to blame. Partially us, partially the union, mostly management and their tactics of corruption with NMB. In fact, the only blame we have is by not REACTING and walking the fine line of work action. I guess we're just being legal, but I think we're laying down to the corruption. We're losing. You might dismiss me as a conspiracy theorist, but I could give you facts that would raise anyone's eyebrows.

Now, we are trying to bring to light those deeper rooted problems. Certainly admirable, and if it works, will hopefully help those in the future that find themselves in this situation. But in the mean time, no contract for us for the foreseeable future. The point of this whole thread is to fully educate those considering employment here...so that they really do know what they're getting into, and hopefully divert enough that management is forced to succumb to the forces of supply and demand.

FWIW, my choices in '08 were the two class date offers I received: American Eagle, and Republic. I STILL wish I had chosen Eagle. Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight.

PotatoChip

Roger.

You can't pick the right place to go, it's impossible. It's hard to do for majors, 10x worse for regionals. All each of us can do it make where we work better somehow. That may mean monetary compensation, might mean work rules. Most unions at the regional level aren't asking for much. I mean, cancellation pay, a decent trip rig? These are the reasons unions were introduced to the airlines 80 years ago. Good luck with your contract. I've been on the side of a pilot group that caved to a terrible one, it sucked, and I'm still furloughed as a result.

andreas500

Quote: "Something to consider, cancellation pay may become more of an issue once the inevitable cancellations occur due to the sequester mandated controller layoffs." Unquote

You simply must be kidding, or is this sarcasm?

package puppy

Not kidding and no sarcasm, just stating that the lack of any cancellation pay may have more of a negative impact on pilots once the sequester hits. No politics, no dog in this fight, just an observation considering so many comments about the company not offering cancellation pay.