Republic and AA in talks on large RJ contract
09-06-2012, 07:39 AM
#61
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Did you read the article???
Republic Airways is in talks with American Airlines regarding a capacity purchase agreement for large regional jets, as the mainline carrier restructures its fleet under bankruptcy court protection. Timothy Dooley, chief financial officer of Republic, says that the regional carrier is cautiously optimistic that they will reach an agreement with American to fly some of the up to 255 large regional jets that are allowed under the carrier's new pilots contract, at the 2012 Dahlman Rose Global Transportation Conference in New York today.
Republic Airways is in talks with American Airlines regarding a capacity purchase agreement for large regional jets, as the mainline carrier restructures its fleet under bankruptcy court protection. Timothy Dooley, chief financial officer of Republic, says that the regional carrier is cautiously optimistic that they will reach an agreement with American to fly some of the up to 255 large regional jets that are allowed under the carrier's new pilots contract, at the 2012 Dahlman Rose Global Transportation Conference in New York today.
In a U merger, the actual number of large RJ's under the U agreement would be 375 or so provided the AA/U mainline size doesn't shrink from current. Another 300 or so smaller RJ's like CRJ-700/E-170's ( yes, these will be the new "small" RJ's as per the the CLA) are also available. I think all Eagle pilots will have employment, but not necessarily with the current Eagle. The worst part is that the majority of these pilots will be stuck in the regional quagmire for many years (if not their careers) if AA/U shrinks at the rate of attrition being replaced by these beloved 64-79 seaters flown for peanuts. That is what AMR's 1113 and TA really spell out, if you read them.
09-06-2012, 07:40 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: forever fo
Posts: 2,413
Did you read the article???
Republic Airways is in talks with American Airlines regarding a capacity purchase agreement for large regional jets, as the mainline carrier restructures its fleet under bankruptcy court protection. Timothy Dooley, chief financial officer of Republic, says that the regional carrier is cautiously optimistic that they will reach an agreement with American to fly some of the up to 255 large regional jets that are allowed under the carrier's new pilots contract, at the 2012 Dahlman Rose Global Transportation Conference in New York today.
Republic Airways is in talks with American Airlines regarding a capacity purchase agreement for large regional jets, as the mainline carrier restructures its fleet under bankruptcy court protection. Timothy Dooley, chief financial officer of Republic, says that the regional carrier is cautiously optimistic that they will reach an agreement with American to fly some of the up to 255 large regional jets that are allowed under the carrier's new pilots contract, at the 2012 Dahlman Rose Global Transportation Conference in New York today.
try that one, its written better.
09-06-2012, 07:42 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: forever fo
Posts: 2,413
......and my money says it was AMR that approached RAH and not the other way around. Last year Eagle ALPA gave their pilots transfer rights (scope) to AMR who also took ownership of all the aircraft. Neither was an accident. Eagle will still be a player, just one of several. You cannot have a whipsaw model without at least 2 (and really 3 or 4) carriers to whipsaw.
In a U merger, the actual number of large RJ's under the U agreement would be 375 or so provided the AA/U mainline size doesn't shrink from current. Another 300 or so smaller RJ's like CRJ-700/E-170's ( yes, these will be the new "small" RJ's as per the the CLA) are also available. I think all Eagle pilots will have employment, but not necessarily with the current Eagle. The worst part is that the majority of these pilots will be stuck innthe regional quagmire for many years ( if not their careers) if AA/U shrinks at the rate of attrition being replaced by these beloved 64-79 seaters flown for peanuts.
In a U merger, the actual number of large RJ's under the U agreement would be 375 or so provided the AA/U mainline size doesn't shrink from current. Another 300 or so smaller RJ's like CRJ-700/E-170's ( yes, these will be the new "small" RJ's as per the the CLA) are also available. I think all Eagle pilots will have employment, but not necessarily with the current Eagle. The worst part is that the majority of these pilots will be stuck innthe regional quagmire for many years ( if not their careers) if AA/U shrinks at the rate of attrition being replaced by these beloved 64-79 seaters flown for peanuts.
09-06-2012, 08:14 AM
#66
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
The REAL shortage will be finding new pilots to fly right seat in these new RJ's for $30/hour. I see a high probability of these things rolling off the line in a few years and going straight to Arizona due to no bodies to put in the poor half of the cockpit. I'll laugh my ass off, of course. That will leave a major problem as even if they increase the pay, there's really no one in the pipeline now where they ALREADY must be. University flight schools are drying up and even at my local airport, it's no fun to sit in the grass on sunny weekend mornings and watch landings as the pattern is usually bare. AA will be paying $40/hour for new hires, so what can the regionals do to get pilots ?
Pay MORE then a legacy and have that increased cost spread over less seats of revenue ?
Nope, they are totally underestimating the coming problem and this problem won't be solved quickly once acknowledged. This problem in 3 years or so, would have to be solved now to get the pipeline flowing to be there when needed. DAL is actually smart for theoretically reducing RJ's in favor of those 717's and of the 3 future global networks, it looks like it will be One World that will be the one with the biggest problem, being most vulnerable and least operationally flexible.
If this bomb goes off in a few years like I think it will, they can expect deaf ears from AA pilots to bail them out. UAL and DAL (aside from likely less exposure), will have a better chance at dealing with it, likely haveing more cooperation and collaboration from their pilot cadres who haven't endured nearly the level of abuse AA pilots have and will likely see going forward. A successful competitive future for the 3 global networks will require collaboration and teamwork and that has all but been destroyed here at AA.
One World is already the future weakest global network, it's just cerrtain people haven't recognized what they're building (actually failing to build) has a broken and weak foundation. Even if another team takes over, again, IMO, the collateral damage is too great to expect much from AA going forward. This carrier seems destined to be the walking wounded, staggering along in perpituity with the survivors having all interest in a competitive fight sucked out of them and likely becoming an airline of "ghosters and coasters".
I think the DAL network will be the premier global model with UAL's second and One World will be the "Walmart" choice. Of course, Walmart is very profitable and perhaps in the future One World's niche will not be the high-end business travelers, but the global Greyhound for the masses who expect little and get exactly that ?
09-06-2012, 08:16 AM
#67
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Chris's Closet
Posts: 485
09-06-2012, 08:31 AM
#69
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Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: El Capitan de Airbii
Posts: 284
The next 5-8 years will be a transition period for the industry as a large portion of the current domestic flown by mainlines is shifted to these new larger RJ's (small narrow-body jets) and coupled with only a modest retirement schedule, especially for the next 5 years likely means there won't be a mass movement to legacies and is likely to be minimal. Then when it does occur (post 2018 or so), there will be 20 applicants for every vacancy. Odds for most aren't good, but that's been the traditional situation.
The REAL shortage will be finding new pilots to fly right seat in these new RJ's for $30/hour. I see a high probability of these things rolling off the line in a few years and going straight to Arizona due to no bodies to put in the poor half of the cockpit. I'll laugh my ass off, of course. That will leave a major problem as even if they increase the pay, there's really no one in the pipeline now where they ALREADY must be. University flight schools are drying up and even at my local airport, it's no fun to sit in the grass on sunny weekend mornings and watch landings as the pattern is usually bare. AA will be paying $40/hour for new hires, so what can the regionals do to get pilots ?
Pay MORE then a legacy and have that increased cost spread over less seats of revenue ?
Nope, they are totally underestimating the coming problem and this problem won't be solved quickly once acknowledged. This problem in 3 years or so, would have to be solved now to get the pipeline flowing to be there when needed. DAL is actually smart for theoretically reducing RJ's in favor of those 717's and of the 3 future global networks, it looks like it will be One World that will be the one with the biggest problem, being most vulnerable and least operationally flexible.
If this bomb goes off in a few years like I think it will, they can expect deaf ears from AA pilots to bail them out. UAL and DAL (aside from likely less exposure), will have a better chance at dealing with it, likely haveing more cooperation and collaboration from their pilot cadres who haven't endured nearly the level of abuse AA pilots have and will likely see going forward. A successful competitive future for the 3 global networks will require collaboration and teamwork and that has all but been destroyed here at AA.
One World is already the future weakest global network, it's just cerrtain people haven't recognized what they're building (actually failing to build) has a broken and weak foundation. Even if another team takes over, again, IMO, the collateral damage is too great to expect much from AA going forward. This carrier seems destined to be the walking wounded, staggering along in perpituity with the survivors having all interest in a competitive fight sucked out of them and likely becoming an airline of "ghosters and coasters".
I think the DAL network will be the premier global model with UAL's second and One World will be the "Walmart" choice. Of course, Walmart is very profitable and perhaps in the future One World's niche will not be the high-end business travelers, but the global Greyhound for the masses who expect little and get exactly that ?
The REAL shortage will be finding new pilots to fly right seat in these new RJ's for $30/hour. I see a high probability of these things rolling off the line in a few years and going straight to Arizona due to no bodies to put in the poor half of the cockpit. I'll laugh my ass off, of course. That will leave a major problem as even if they increase the pay, there's really no one in the pipeline now where they ALREADY must be. University flight schools are drying up and even at my local airport, it's no fun to sit in the grass on sunny weekend mornings and watch landings as the pattern is usually bare. AA will be paying $40/hour for new hires, so what can the regionals do to get pilots ?
Pay MORE then a legacy and have that increased cost spread over less seats of revenue ?
Nope, they are totally underestimating the coming problem and this problem won't be solved quickly once acknowledged. This problem in 3 years or so, would have to be solved now to get the pipeline flowing to be there when needed. DAL is actually smart for theoretically reducing RJ's in favor of those 717's and of the 3 future global networks, it looks like it will be One World that will be the one with the biggest problem, being most vulnerable and least operationally flexible.
If this bomb goes off in a few years like I think it will, they can expect deaf ears from AA pilots to bail them out. UAL and DAL (aside from likely less exposure), will have a better chance at dealing with it, likely haveing more cooperation and collaboration from their pilot cadres who haven't endured nearly the level of abuse AA pilots have and will likely see going forward. A successful competitive future for the 3 global networks will require collaboration and teamwork and that has all but been destroyed here at AA.
One World is already the future weakest global network, it's just cerrtain people haven't recognized what they're building (actually failing to build) has a broken and weak foundation. Even if another team takes over, again, IMO, the collateral damage is too great to expect much from AA going forward. This carrier seems destined to be the walking wounded, staggering along in perpituity with the survivors having all interest in a competitive fight sucked out of them and likely becoming an airline of "ghosters and coasters".
I think the DAL network will be the premier global model with UAL's second and One World will be the "Walmart" choice. Of course, Walmart is very profitable and perhaps in the future One World's niche will not be the high-end business travelers, but the global Greyhound for the masses who expect little and get exactly that ?
The bickering over this regional vs. major, 'stolen flying', race the bottom stuff is pointless. The simplest of economic principles will set industry wages like anything else. I think most of us already here started chasing the carrot. Invest in expensive training, go to a for the short-term like an internship, then on to a major for the payoff, right? Now, as I look at a possible 15+ year 'career' at a regional, wannabe pilots are paying attention. The 'major' jobs will continue to be competitive for a decade or two, and I think (hope) those considering this industry will realize they may invest upwards of 100K for 10+ years of substandard pay.
Eventually, there just will not be qualified people for the right seat of an RJ. The industry will have to compensate. I predict the compensation will come in the form of consolidation, disappearance of small RJ's and small markets served, and overall higher ticket prices. Hopefully, regional CEO's and BOD's will get cut out of the pie and the flying will be brought back in-house at reasonable pay rates.
For now, I guess we can only ride the ride.
-SR
09-06-2012, 08:33 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: 777
Posts: 495
+1
The bickering over this regional vs. major, 'stolen flying', race the bottom stuff is pointless. The simplest of economic principles will set industry wages like anything else. I think most of us already here started chasing the carrot. Invest in expensive training, go to a for the short-term like an internship, then on to a major for the payoff, right? Now, as I look at a possible 15+ year 'career' at a regional, wannabe pilots are paying attention. The 'major' jobs will continue to be competitive for a decade or two, and I think (hope) those considering this industry will realize they may invest upwards of 100K for 10+ years of substandard pay.
Eventually, there just will not be qualified people for the right seat of an RJ. The industry will have to compensate. I predict the compensation will come in the form of consolidation, disappearance of small RJ's and small markets served, and overall higher ticket prices. Hopefully, regional CEO's and BOD's will get cut out of the pie and the flying will be brought back in-house at reasonable pay rates.
For now, I guess we can only ride the ride.
-SR
