Republic and AA in talks on large RJ contract
09-06-2012, 08:49 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Get over it man. By you're reasoning no one should be working at the "regional" level because...I hate to break it to you....WE ARE ALL BOTTOM FEEDERS!!! No matter if you work at Skywest or you work at Great Lakes, we are all working in the same cr@p sandwich! And management will always look to save a buck, and eliminate YOUR job when practical.
09-06-2012, 09:31 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
What have YOU to say to the guys that went to republic and are trying to get a better contract? Unless your on the negotiating committee at a regional I'm afraid you don't have much of a leg to Stand on. My hats off for the republic guys that haven't given in til a turd sandwich yet. So how are you fixing the mess? Where do YOU work?
Like I said before, 19, 37, maybe even 50 seat aircraft have their niches at times. Ya'all have gone off the deep end if you think an 80-100 seat aircraft is providing "regional feed".
A large part of the problem was the relaxation of scope. Another is the ignorance of young pilots entering the airline industry. However, the hardest issue for me to stomach are the pilots who have been here a while, and still refuse to look back and say, "you know, I made some mistakes, and maybe flying the same size equipment for half pay wasn't the best move for the industry as a whole. Many of these guys would do it all over again if it meant a shorter upgrade.
How am I trying to Fix the Mess? I certainly don't jump ship to the next "best" thing that comes along, work for peanuts, and then tell myself its ok, because eventually I'm going to negotiate better pay.
It may not be much, but I do the best that I can to look like a professional and act like a professional. A big part of walking in those shoes is educating the young and inexperienced. There will always be those who are greedy, and looking for a shortcut, at any expense. Not much can be done about them. If someone makes a poor decision due to naivety or misinformation, they've failed themselves for not seeking knowledge, or I've failed them for not spreading my knowledge.
Integrity, dignity, and professionalism may be waning in this industry, but they are not dead.
09-07-2012, 04:57 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,448
I can appreciate the effort of trying to make right what is wrong, but they gave into the "turd sandwich" when they went to work there. Yes, I truly believe the industry would be better had Republic never been born, assuming another didn't sprout up in its place.
Like I said before, 19, 37, maybe even 50 seat aircraft have their niches at times. Ya'all have gone off the deep end if you think an 80-100 seat aircraft is providing "regional feed".
A large part of the problem was the relaxation of scope. Another is the ignorance of young pilots entering the airline industry. However, the hardest issue for me to stomach are the pilots who have been here a while, and still refuse to look back and say, "you know, I made some mistakes, and maybe flying the same size equipment for half pay wasn't the best move for the industry as a whole. Many of these guys would do it all over again if it meant a shorter upgrade.
How am I trying to Fix the Mess? I certainly don't jump ship to the next "best" thing that comes along, work for peanuts, and then tell myself its ok, because eventually I'm going to negotiate better pay.
It may not be much, but I do the best that I can to look like a professional and act like a professional. A big part of walking in those shoes is educating the young and inexperienced. There will always be those who are greedy, and looking for a shortcut, at any expense. Not much can be done about them. If someone makes a poor decision due to naivety or misinformation, they've failed themselves for not seeking knowledge, or I've failed them for not spreading my knowledge.
Integrity, dignity, and professionalism may be waning in this industry, but they are not dead.
Like I said before, 19, 37, maybe even 50 seat aircraft have their niches at times. Ya'all have gone off the deep end if you think an 80-100 seat aircraft is providing "regional feed".
A large part of the problem was the relaxation of scope. Another is the ignorance of young pilots entering the airline industry. However, the hardest issue for me to stomach are the pilots who have been here a while, and still refuse to look back and say, "you know, I made some mistakes, and maybe flying the same size equipment for half pay wasn't the best move for the industry as a whole. Many of these guys would do it all over again if it meant a shorter upgrade.
How am I trying to Fix the Mess? I certainly don't jump ship to the next "best" thing that comes along, work for peanuts, and then tell myself its ok, because eventually I'm going to negotiate better pay.
It may not be much, but I do the best that I can to look like a professional and act like a professional. A big part of walking in those shoes is educating the young and inexperienced. There will always be those who are greedy, and looking for a shortcut, at any expense. Not much can be done about them. If someone makes a poor decision due to naivety or misinformation, they've failed themselves for not seeking knowledge, or I've failed them for not spreading my knowledge.
Integrity, dignity, and professionalism may be waning in this industry, but they are not dead.
I got hired in 2007 at Colgan. I had really only heard of Colgan, express jet, and eagle. My dad was a pilot (not airline), and his airline buddies told me to go to a regional with the quickest upgrade. I went to Colgan, have around 1400 TPIC and never sat reserve. You couldn't have paid me to go to another regional. They all have good and bad times.
09-07-2012, 05:06 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: 777
Posts: 495
I completely agree with scope.
I got hired in 2007 at Colgan. I had really only heard of Colgan, express jet, and eagle. My dad was a pilot (not airline), and his airline buddies told me to go to a regional with the quickest upgrade. I went to Colgan, have around 1400 TPIC and never sat reserve. You couldn't have paid me to go to another regional. They all have good and bad times.
I completely agree with both y'all. Niches are niches. When the airline I work for runs 50 seaters into certain markets, it makes big time sense. There's also cities where other express carriers are running 170s/CR9s in and out. To me, most of that is BS, but the mainline guys gave up scope long ago......
And to comment on Fixthemess, I agree there are always guys looking for a easy way... I look across the ramps at those 170s and think what went through the heads of SOME those guys when they jumped from other carriers to the E170 for trash wages. I am NOT saying all the guys there are that way... I will take my steady march toward upgrade flying a 50 seat RJ for a lot more money than the heavy 170s over there..
All of our times will come.
09-07-2012, 05:32 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 243
Ok, I post this without reading the last 10 pages of name calling and general poop fest...
Has anyone stopped for a second to consider the possibility that this is JUST posturing on the part of AA or Republic? If Republic, they are doing it to gain a leg up on recognizability and pressure AA into the RFP that was put out last spring. If AA it's probably meant to pressure the pilot group... Either way it's just PR!
Since when are RFPs announced via an aviation blog!? Every time one is announced, there's a trickle of a few rumblings, a few rumors, and then an announcement by the contractor and the mainline
Really wouldn't go apocalypse on this until something concrete is announced. Just my $0.02
Has anyone stopped for a second to consider the possibility that this is JUST posturing on the part of AA or Republic? If Republic, they are doing it to gain a leg up on recognizability and pressure AA into the RFP that was put out last spring. If AA it's probably meant to pressure the pilot group... Either way it's just PR!
Since when are RFPs announced via an aviation blog!? Every time one is announced, there's a trickle of a few rumblings, a few rumors, and then an announcement by the contractor and the mainline
Really wouldn't go apocalypse on this until something concrete is announced. Just my $0.02
09-07-2012, 05:34 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Goodyear Blimp-roap jockey, CSIP, CFII, MEI
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by CFItillIdie View Post
You gotta be kidding me....yeah, because I work on getting new contracts, I take full responsibly. Grow up.
You absolutely contribute to getting new contracts by being willing to work for a disgraceful wage for the size of equipment your on. I am sick and tired of the default Republic pilot response, "not my fault, I'm just doing what I'm told". No. You decided to work at a slave labor shop in order to further your career, and try to fast track yourself to where you hope to be someday. Most of you are byproducts of SJS, and deficiencies at realizing your own self worth. That is the sole reason Republic has grown over the years. Cheap labor.
And where were you sir when I needed a job? A job when jobs were hard to come by? Maybe I will just sit there next time and not even work purely based on your principles. Get over yourself. Maybe if you really believe this hard core line your talking, you should go set up a booth at career fairs and offer your best advice to people with limited options on places to work so they can conform to your vision for this messed up career. Maybe that will fixthemess.
You gotta be kidding me....yeah, because I work on getting new contracts, I take full responsibly. Grow up.
You absolutely contribute to getting new contracts by being willing to work for a disgraceful wage for the size of equipment your on. I am sick and tired of the default Republic pilot response, "not my fault, I'm just doing what I'm told". No. You decided to work at a slave labor shop in order to further your career, and try to fast track yourself to where you hope to be someday. Most of you are byproducts of SJS, and deficiencies at realizing your own self worth. That is the sole reason Republic has grown over the years. Cheap labor.
And where were you sir when I needed a job? A job when jobs were hard to come by? Maybe I will just sit there next time and not even work purely based on your principles. Get over yourself. Maybe if you really believe this hard core line your talking, you should go set up a booth at career fairs and offer your best advice to people with limited options on places to work so they can conform to your vision for this messed up career. Maybe that will fixthemess.
09-07-2012, 05:44 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Goodyear Blimp-roap jockey, CSIP, CFII, MEI
Posts: 224
[QUOTE=CFItillIdie;1257225]Originally Posted by CFItillIdie View Post
You gotta be kidding me....yeah, because I work on getting new contracts, I take full responsibly. Grow up.
You absolutely contribute to getting new contracts by being willing to work for a disgraceful wage for the size of equipment your on. I am sick and tired of the default Republic pilot response, "not my fault, I'm just doing what I'm told". No. You decided to work at a slave labor shop in order to further your career, and try to fast track yourself to where you hope to be someday. Most of you are byproducts of SJS, and deficiencies at realizing your own self worth. That is the sole reason Republic has grown over the years. Cheap labor.
And where were you sir when I needed a job? A job when jobs were hard to come by? Maybe I will just sit there next time and not even work purely based on your principles. Get over yourself. Maybe if you really believe this hard core line your talking, you should go set up a booth at career fairs and offer your best advice to people with limited options on places to work so they can conform to your vision for this messed up career. Maybe that will fixthemess.
You gotta be kidding me....yeah, because I work on getting new contracts, I take full responsibly. Grow up.
You absolutely contribute to getting new contracts by being willing to work for a disgraceful wage for the size of equipment your on. I am sick and tired of the default Republic pilot response, "not my fault, I'm just doing what I'm told". No. You decided to work at a slave labor shop in order to further your career, and try to fast track yourself to where you hope to be someday. Most of you are byproducts of SJS, and deficiencies at realizing your own self worth. That is the sole reason Republic has grown over the years. Cheap labor.
And where were you sir when I needed a job? A job when jobs were hard to come by? Maybe I will just sit there next time and not even work purely based on your principles. Get over yourself. Maybe if you really believe this hard core line your talking, you should go set up a booth at career fairs and offer your best advice to people with limited options on places to work so they can conform to your vision for this messed up career. Maybe that will fixthemess.
09-07-2012, 06:06 AM
#109
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
It will ?
Could you clarify exactly what utopia you're referring to when you say this as I'm curious ?
Is it when you make captain on a "heavy" RJ at your regional, or........is it when you get hired by a legacy like mine for $40/hour with no pension, a PBS schedule life no better then the regional you left and astronomical out-of-pocket health care costs ?
If the "your time" you're referring to is the jump to a legacy, then I think you're still living in a fantasy life of the past, when senior airline captains were upper middle class with great schedules and nice pensions. By the time you do get to a legacy (if you ever do), you'll find it nothing more then the regional you left with bigger RJ's and somewhat higher hourly rates (crew melas are nice at times though). To exceed the heavy RJ captains rate you may leave will take many years at that legacy and then once you match that RJ captains rate, it'll take many more years to make up the lost diference.
The bad news is you'll likely have another 5 years at least before you have to worry about that $40/hour and that decade long climb to zero yourself out financially from the transition to "your time". The good news is that you'll have to wait another 5 years at least before you have to worry about "your time". As long as you don't fall into a fantasy trap that a future legacy airline job will be anything more then a typical middle-middle class job with a better view and your captains pay will only be a little more then half that of many Southern Califonia lifeguards, police officers or many school teachers (who DO have pensions), then'll you be fine. Like it or not, your future is a greyhound bus with wings that pays a mediocre wage and the trade-off for that view will be half your career stting in airport hotels wondering what to do next with yourself.
Could you clarify exactly what utopia you're referring to when you say this as I'm curious ?
Is it when you make captain on a "heavy" RJ at your regional, or........is it when you get hired by a legacy like mine for $40/hour with no pension, a PBS schedule life no better then the regional you left and astronomical out-of-pocket health care costs ?
If the "your time" you're referring to is the jump to a legacy, then I think you're still living in a fantasy life of the past, when senior airline captains were upper middle class with great schedules and nice pensions. By the time you do get to a legacy (if you ever do), you'll find it nothing more then the regional you left with bigger RJ's and somewhat higher hourly rates (crew melas are nice at times though). To exceed the heavy RJ captains rate you may leave will take many years at that legacy and then once you match that RJ captains rate, it'll take many more years to make up the lost diference.
The bad news is you'll likely have another 5 years at least before you have to worry about that $40/hour and that decade long climb to zero yourself out financially from the transition to "your time". The good news is that you'll have to wait another 5 years at least before you have to worry about "your time". As long as you don't fall into a fantasy trap that a future legacy airline job will be anything more then a typical middle-middle class job with a better view and your captains pay will only be a little more then half that of many Southern Califonia lifeguards, police officers or many school teachers (who DO have pensions), then'll you be fine. Like it or not, your future is a greyhound bus with wings that pays a mediocre wage and the trade-off for that view will be half your career stting in airport hotels wondering what to do next with yourself.
09-07-2012, 06:24 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: 777
Posts: 495
It will ?
Could you clarify exactly what utopia you're referring to when you say this as I'm curious ?
Is it when you make captain on a "heavy" RJ at your regional, or........is it when you get hired by a legacy like mine for $40/hour with no pension, a PBS schedule life no better then the regional you left and astronomical out-of-pocket health care costs ?
If the "your time" you're referring to is the jump to a legacy, then I think you're still living in a fantasy life of the past, when senior airline captains were upper middle class with great schedules and nice pensions. By the time you do get to a legacy (if you ever do), you'll find it nothing more then the regional you left with bigger RJ's and somewhat higher hourly rates (crew melas are nice at times though). To exceed the heavy RJ captains rate you may leave will take many years at that legacy and then once you match that RJ captains rate, it'll take many more years to make up the lost diference.
The bad news is you'll likely have another 5 years at least before you have to worry about that $40/hour and that decade long climb to zero yourself out financially from the transition to "your time". The good news is that you'll have to wait another 5 years at least before you have to worry about "your time". As long as you don't fall into a fantasy trap that a future legacy airline job will be anything more then a typical middle-middle class job with a better view and your captains pay will only be a little more then half that of many Southern Califonia lifeguards, police officers or many school teachers (who DO have pensions), then'll you be fine. Like it or not, your future is a greyhound bus with wings that pays a mediocre wage and the trade-off for that view will be half your career stting in airport hotels wondering what to do next with yourself.
The move to a legacy isn't a move to the oasis utopia. You don't have to sit there and lecture me. I grew up in a household that barely made it through a 121 bankruptcy. A household that took a hit like every other airline family after 9/11. I wouldn't see my dad for 20-30 days straight due to a commute across the country on reserve... Yeah man, I get it.. But I'm ready and I don't have dreamland expectations. I'm not here to be a millionaire. Just making a living.
