republic
09-09-2012, 07:52 PM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: forever fo
Posts: 2,413
I don't think so for the following reasons:
-A pilot gets hired...forced to move to an outstation bases because the trips are uncommutable and it's a two-leg commute from most places in the country. Pilot meets girl, get's married, has kids, upgrades, buys house and is suddenly making good money and living in base. He isn't going anywhere...even if a top-tier mainline carrier calls, he's not gonna commute to reserve and take a pay cut for a few years. This limits upgrade opportunities and ultimately results in a senior (read: expensive) pilot group, and we've all seen what happens to contract carriers with senior pilots groups.
-Second, the show times are as early as 0445. That means you have to try to get to bed at 7AM to get a proper amount of sleep for a 3AM alarm. That cuts into your day off, and try, just try to fall asleep knowing that you have to wake up as early as 3AM. Then, get up, after not sleeping, work your day and sit in some fleabag hotel for 20+ hours. Generally you pass out as soon as you get in, and wake up later in the night...wide awake. Eventually you report the next day for a late morning or early afternoon report...having not slept worth a damn during the night. You then work the next day until late at night...oftentimes until after midnight to get back to base. VERY few trips at these outstations end in the afternoon, aside from day trips.
You roll into the house as late as 1AM, go to bed and spend the next day sleeping until noon as your body tries to recover from this ludicrous work schedule. Not only do you not get back early enough to day anything after your trip, as with many airlines, but you also lose half of the following day just recovering. I tell everyone that an rjet 4-day trip really lasts 5.5 days.
A few months back, CMH had almost exclusively this type of two-day trip and day trips that credited as low as 2:33. Nice stuff, huh? Lately, it's gotten such that many of these early report/late arrivals are spread out over 3 or 4 day trips, but that doesn't help commutability as the nature of these trips precludes butting them against each other to make a productive 5 or 6 day period to allow reasonably commutable blocks of days off....and you're gonna want at least 4 day blocks if you commute, because you'll be commuting on two of your days off.
No, outstation basing (rjet style) is not nice....even if you live in base.
Another problem is that rjet's PBS is very limited...if you get a good block of days off and FLICA needs to add more work because you haven't met the target number of hours, it will dump a low time day trip in the middle of our days off....breaking up a useful 7 day off block into 2 three day blocks instead of butting said day trip up against your days on to preserve that nice block of days off...and there isn't a thing you can do about it with rjet's limited PBS.
What you're stuck with is a schedule that precludes you from picking up trips out of open time because you'll run into a 30 in 7 problem, yet the company won't allow you to drop or swap anything because of "lack of reserve coverage" since people use sick and unavailable calls to improve schedules instead of the company allowing to be done in a normal manner, thus requiring fewer reserves. Rjet either doesn't get it or they just don't care.
I hear friends from other bases talking about how CMH crews are "no fun." Possibly, but I think it's because so many of them are just flat worn out. I developed a sleeping disorder was the result of a previous job and I've done a lot of research on this subject, and it's my belief that a very large percentage of crew members in CMH suffer from sleep disorders. Ambien is passed around by FAs like aspirin, and I've spoken to several people who have sought medical help or are considering doing so for their sleeping problems.
Rjet is a freeking circus. Stay away.
-A pilot gets hired...forced to move to an outstation bases because the trips are uncommutable and it's a two-leg commute from most places in the country. Pilot meets girl, get's married, has kids, upgrades, buys house and is suddenly making good money and living in base. He isn't going anywhere...even if a top-tier mainline carrier calls, he's not gonna commute to reserve and take a pay cut for a few years. This limits upgrade opportunities and ultimately results in a senior (read: expensive) pilot group, and we've all seen what happens to contract carriers with senior pilots groups.
-Second, the show times are as early as 0445. That means you have to try to get to bed at 7AM to get a proper amount of sleep for a 3AM alarm. That cuts into your day off, and try, just try to fall asleep knowing that you have to wake up as early as 3AM. Then, get up, after not sleeping, work your day and sit in some fleabag hotel for 20+ hours. Generally you pass out as soon as you get in, and wake up later in the night...wide awake. Eventually you report the next day for a late morning or early afternoon report...having not slept worth a damn during the night. You then work the next day until late at night...oftentimes until after midnight to get back to base. VERY few trips at these outstations end in the afternoon, aside from day trips.
You roll into the house as late as 1AM, go to bed and spend the next day sleeping until noon as your body tries to recover from this ludicrous work schedule. Not only do you not get back early enough to day anything after your trip, as with many airlines, but you also lose half of the following day just recovering. I tell everyone that an rjet 4-day trip really lasts 5.5 days.
A few months back, CMH had almost exclusively this type of two-day trip and day trips that credited as low as 2:33. Nice stuff, huh? Lately, it's gotten such that many of these early report/late arrivals are spread out over 3 or 4 day trips, but that doesn't help commutability as the nature of these trips precludes butting them against each other to make a productive 5 or 6 day period to allow reasonably commutable blocks of days off....and you're gonna want at least 4 day blocks if you commute, because you'll be commuting on two of your days off.
No, outstation basing (rjet style) is not nice....even if you live in base.
Another problem is that rjet's PBS is very limited...if you get a good block of days off and FLICA needs to add more work because you haven't met the target number of hours, it will dump a low time day trip in the middle of our days off....breaking up a useful 7 day off block into 2 three day blocks instead of butting said day trip up against your days on to preserve that nice block of days off...and there isn't a thing you can do about it with rjet's limited PBS.
What you're stuck with is a schedule that precludes you from picking up trips out of open time because you'll run into a 30 in 7 problem, yet the company won't allow you to drop or swap anything because of "lack of reserve coverage" since people use sick and unavailable calls to improve schedules instead of the company allowing to be done in a normal manner, thus requiring fewer reserves. Rjet either doesn't get it or they just don't care.
I hear friends from other bases talking about how CMH crews are "no fun." Possibly, but I think it's because so many of them are just flat worn out. I developed a sleeping disorder was the result of a previous job and I've done a lot of research on this subject, and it's my belief that a very large percentage of crew members in CMH suffer from sleep disorders. Ambien is passed around by FAs like aspirin, and I've spoken to several people who have sought medical help or are considering doing so for their sleeping problems.
Rjet is a freeking circus. Stay away.
Glad we may lose our jobs at Eagle because someone agreed to work for that.
09-09-2012, 08:14 PM
#132
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
-Second, the show times are as early as 0445. That means you have to try to get to bed at 7AM to get a proper amount of sleep for a 3AM alarm. That cuts into your day off, and try, just try to fall asleep knowing that you have to wake up as early as 3AM. Then, get up, after not sleeping, work your day and sit in some fleabag hotel for 20+ hours. Generally you pass out as soon as you get in, and wake up later in the night...wide awake. Eventually you report the next day for a late morning or early afternoon report...having not slept worth a damn during the night. You then work the next day until late at night...oftentimes until after midnight to get back to base. VERY few trips at these outstations end in the afternoon, aside from day trips.
You roll into the house as late as 1AM, go to bed and spend the next day sleeping until noon as your body tries to recover from this ludicrous work schedule. Not only do you not get back early enough to day anything after your trip, as with many airlines, but you also lose half of the following day just recovering. I tell everyone that an rjet 4-day trip really lasts 5.5 days.
A few months back, CMH had almost exclusively this type of two-day trip and day trips that credited as low as 2:33. Nice stuff, huh? Lately, it's gotten such that many of these early report/late arrivals are spread out over 3 or 4 day trips, but that doesn't help commutability as the nature of these trips precludes butting them against each other to make a productive 5 or 6 day period to allow reasonably commutable blocks of days off....and you're gonna want at least 4 day blocks if you commute, because you'll be commuting on two of your days off. I hear friends from other bases talking about how CMH crews are "no fun." Possibly, but I think it's because so many of them are just flat worn out. I developed a sleeping disorder was the result of a previous job and I've done a lot of research on this subject, and it's my belief that a very large percentage of crew members in CMH suffer from sleep disorders. Ambien is passed around by FAs like aspirin, and I've spoken to several people who have sought medical help or are considering doing so for their sleeping problems. No, outstation basing (rjet style) is not nice....even if you live in base.
-A pilot gets hired...forced to move to an outstation bases because the trips are uncommutable and it's a two-leg commute from most places in the country. Pilot meets girl, get's married, has kids, upgrades, buys house and is suddenly making good money and living in base. He isn't going anywhere...even if a top-tier mainline carrier calls, he's not gonna commute to reserve and take a pay cut for a few years. This limits upgrade opportunities and ultimately results in a senior (read: expensive) pilot group, and we've all seen what happens to contract carriers with senior pilots groups.
09-09-2012, 08:21 PM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
so why did you work there?? if all you guys worked at the better places, we all could have better QOL, instead your taking the flying because you do it for less, because of the reasons you listed.
Glad we may lose our jobs at Eagle because someone agreed to work for that.
Glad we may lose our jobs at Eagle because someone agreed to work for that.
I'm doing what I can now to educate people about this place before they come here as opposed to learning like I did; The hard way.
Also, I don't know how many times it has to be said, but blaming other pilots for stealing "your" flying and claiming that if no one took such jobs they wouldn't exist is flawed logic on so many levels that attempting to explain it here would consume far more time than I care to waste on someone who lacks the intellectual capacity to understand how wrong he is.
Did you ever stop to consider that you could apply such statements to yourself regarding mainline AA's long furloughed pilots?
Last edited by sqwkvfr; 09-09-2012 at 08:32 PM.
09-09-2012, 08:25 PM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
I think that I made abundantly clear in an above post that I'm not sharing this information to whine, but help inform others as to what they are walking into when they accept a class date at rjet.
Isn't sharing information and helping others the exact reason this board exists, Mr. Moderator?
09-09-2012, 08:33 PM
#135
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Out of curiosity, was the SA crew who ran off 10/28 in CLE a CMH crew? I thought I remembered the CA making a statement that he had a sleeping disorder, so I found your comment regarding the trips effecting your sleep interesting.
09-09-2012, 08:37 PM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 110
In the regional flying industry no one steals your flying. It was not yours to begin with. All regional flying is much like any other contract work. You are only there until the contract is expired or terminated, or until someone else shows up that can do it faster and cheaper. We are all indeed "contract workers". When we all work for the company with the name on the tail (and not a subsidiary of that company), things will change, but not before. No such vision is in sight.
09-09-2012, 08:47 PM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
Everyone has a different situation. Some people truly can't leave. Perhaps they have a sick child or parent. And I understand that. To be clear, my comment was not directed at you but rather made as a general statement. I simply made the comment because I saw so many guys follow the QOL line of thinking to justify their decision to be a regional lifer. Chances are, their QOL will still be better as a junior guy on reserve at a Major. So again, it wasn't directed at you. Sorry if it came off as stand off-ish.
Out of curiosity, was the SA crew who ran off 10/28 in CLE a CMH crew? I thought I remembered the CA making a statement that he had a sleeping disorder, so I found your comment regarding the trips effecting your sleep interesting.
Out of curiosity, was the SA crew who ran off 10/28 in CLE a CMH crew? I thought I remembered the CA making a statement that he had a sleeping disorder, so I found your comment regarding the trips effecting your sleep interesting.
To clarify my point about the senior pilots, if rjet based in hubs (like almost everyone else) it would be much easier for senior pilots to move on should the opportunity present itself, because the commute (if there was one) won't be any different and it wouldn't involve pulling the rug out from under your life to take a job at the mainline carrier for whom you've been flying contract feed.
I don't know about the CLE crew. That was before my time and both pilots, as you may have guessed, uh, moved on shortly after. However, the FAA/NTSB got on rjet for it's punitive sick leave policy, so the company made some very minor modifications, labeled it "non-punitive" and basically still has the same BS punitive sick leave policy...I bring this up because the CPT was not only tired, he was sick, and would have called in such had he not been facing disciplinary action from the company for doing so.
Also, and I hesitate to bring this up, but my understnading is that the FO that was convicted about a year ago for OUI on the AUS-DEN (or was it DEN-AUS?) flight apparently had chances to call in sick as well, but doing so under rjet's "non-punitive" sick policy would have pushed him over his occurance limit and he would have likely been fired. Now, I fully realize that that story has a lot of chapters and footnotes, but rjet's "non-punitive" sick policy put pressure on this guy that really shouldn't have been there.
My situation is that I've made a promise to this company to stay for two years...I plan to fulfill my obligation and move on the second I'm able.
Last edited by sqwkvfr; 09-09-2012 at 09:13 PM.
09-09-2012, 08:53 PM
#138
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
..and I took it as being directed toward me, so if you'll excuse the harsh nature of my response, I'd appreciate it.
I don't know about the CLE crew. That was before my time and both pilots, as you may have guessed, uh, "moved on" shortly after. However, the FAA/NTSB got on rjet for it's punitive sick leave policy, so the company made some very minor modifications, labeled it "non-punitive" and basically still has the same BS punitive sick leave policy...I bring this up because the CPT was not only tired, he was sick, and would have called in such had he not been facing disciplinary action from the company for doing so.
My situation is that I've made a promise to this company to stay for two years...I plan to fulfill my obligation and move on the second I'm able.
My word still means something, even if rjet's doesn't.
I don't know about the CLE crew. That was before my time and both pilots, as you may have guessed, uh, "moved on" shortly after. However, the FAA/NTSB got on rjet for it's punitive sick leave policy, so the company made some very minor modifications, labeled it "non-punitive" and basically still has the same BS punitive sick leave policy...I bring this up because the CPT was not only tired, he was sick, and would have called in such had he not been facing disciplinary action from the company for doing so.
My situation is that I've made a promise to this company to stay for two years...I plan to fulfill my obligation and move on the second I'm able.
My word still means something, even if rjet's doesn't.
And the sick policy is BS. It's ridiculous that pilots can't be trusted to call in sick, yet we are "trusted" to fly management around. 
Good luck on getting out. I truly wish you the best.
09-10-2012, 08:33 PM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.
Posts: 544
..and I took it as being directed toward me, so if you'll excuse the harsh nature of my response, I'd appreciate it.
To clarify my point about the senior pilots, if rjet based in hubs (like almost everyone else) it would be much easier for senior pilots to move on should the opportunity present itself, because the commute (if there was one) won't be any different and it wouldn't involve pulling the rug out from under your life to take a job at the mainline carrier for whom you've been flying contract feed.
I don't know about the CLE crew. That was before my time and both pilots, as you may have guessed, uh, moved on shortly after. However, the FAA/NTSB got on rjet for it's punitive sick leave policy, so the company made some very minor modifications, labeled it "non-punitive" and basically still has the same BS punitive sick leave policy...I bring this up because the CPT was not only tired, he was sick, and would have called in such had he not been facing disciplinary action from the company for doing so.
Also, and I hesitate to bring this up, but my understnading is that the FO that was convicted about a year ago for OUI on the AUS-DEN (or was it DEN-AUS?) flight apparently had chances to call in sick as well, but doing so under rjet's "non-punitive" sick policy would have pushed him over his occurance limit and he would have likely been fired. Now, I fully realize that that story has a lot of chapters and footnotes, but rjet's "non-punitive" sick policy put pressure on this guy that really shouldn't have been there.
My situation is that I've made a promise to this company to stay for two years...I plan to fulfill my obligation and move on the second I'm able.
To clarify my point about the senior pilots, if rjet based in hubs (like almost everyone else) it would be much easier for senior pilots to move on should the opportunity present itself, because the commute (if there was one) won't be any different and it wouldn't involve pulling the rug out from under your life to take a job at the mainline carrier for whom you've been flying contract feed.
I don't know about the CLE crew. That was before my time and both pilots, as you may have guessed, uh, moved on shortly after. However, the FAA/NTSB got on rjet for it's punitive sick leave policy, so the company made some very minor modifications, labeled it "non-punitive" and basically still has the same BS punitive sick leave policy...I bring this up because the CPT was not only tired, he was sick, and would have called in such had he not been facing disciplinary action from the company for doing so.
Also, and I hesitate to bring this up, but my understnading is that the FO that was convicted about a year ago for OUI on the AUS-DEN (or was it DEN-AUS?) flight apparently had chances to call in sick as well, but doing so under rjet's "non-punitive" sick policy would have pushed him over his occurance limit and he would have likely been fired. Now, I fully realize that that story has a lot of chapters and footnotes, but rjet's "non-punitive" sick policy put pressure on this guy that really shouldn't have been there.
My situation is that I've made a promise to this company to stay for two years...I plan to fulfill my obligation and move on the second I'm able.
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