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Old 08-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #111  
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Position: Under beer over couch after skool
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Originally Posted by MusicPilot
Glad to know I'm awesome. Thanks! Obviously, you just sit and wait for something to happen. I feel sorry for the future guys/gals that'll have to sit next to you and hear you b*tch and complain.
Well I was serious about my curiosity.

1. Thousands of hours-check (like you, no TPIC)
2. No failed checkrides- check
3. Undergrad degree from good school- check
4. Leadership/management experience-check
5. Graduate degree-check
6. Combat Veteran-check
7. Solid references-check
8. Job apps/resumes out and continuously updated-check

What did you do? Where did you move to/from?

None of this entitles me to a job. But then, I don't insinuate that other people haven't worked hard enough to move on. So, I'm curious what you did and what the results were. Because it looks like you are being intentionally vague about your approach to success and the results.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:18 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo
Well I was serious about my curiosity.

1. Thousands of hours-check (like you, no TPIC)
2. No failed checkrides- check
3. Undergrad degree from good school- check
4. Leadership/management experience-check
5. Graduate degree-check
6. Combat Veteran-check
7. Solid references-check
8. Job apps/resumes out and continuously updated-check
9. Good attitude-??

What did you do? Where did you move to/from?

None of this entitles me to a job. But then, I don't insinuate that other people haven't worked hard enough to move on. So, I'm curious what you did and what the results were. Because it looks like you are being intentionally vague about your approach to success and the results.
Maybe work on that one. You'd be surprised how much of your hatred for your current employer will bleed through in an interview. I saw it many, many times in interviews as a pilot rep. I know you probably think I'm being a d!ck, but I'm trying to help. You said if there's something you haven't tried... Based on all your posts, I'd say thats something you ought to try. We can train procedures and even technique. We can't train attitude.

Last edited by Mojito; 08-29-2012 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Spelling... Yes it's important
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:29 PM
  #113  
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.
Posts: 544
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo
Well I was serious about my curiosity.

1. Thousands of hours-check (like you, no TPIC)
2. No failed checkrides- check
3. Undergrad degree from good school- check
4. Leadership/management experience-check
5. Graduate degree-check
6. Combat Veteran-check
7. Solid references-check
8. Job apps/resumes out and continuously updated-check

What did you do? Where did you move to/from?

None of this entitles me to a job. But then, I don't insinuate that other people haven't worked hard enough to move on. So, I'm curious what you did and what the results were. Because it looks like you are being intentionally vague about your approach to success and the results.
Originally Posted by Mojito
Maybe work on that one. You'd be surprised how much of your hatred for your current employer will bleed through in an interview. I saw it many, many times in interviews as a pilot rep. I know you probably think I'm being a d!ck, but I'm trying to help. You said if there's something you haven't tried... Based on all your posts, I'd say thats something you ought to try. We can train procedures and even technique. We can't train attitude.
Definitely correct on the attitude. I did interviews here and I can tell you how many came in from other 121/135 operations with bad attitudes. You could even see it in their posture.

The biggest gift you can give yourself is networking. I don't just mean finding someone that'll throw your resume in, I mean getting them to go to bat for you. That's step one. Step two is to figure out how to separate your resume from everyone else's. The biggest part is format. Using key indentifiers helps out a lot. You should be getting your ATP of you already don't have it. If you have the resources to it go get typed in another jet. I got an A320 type (no limitations) to help out my resume. I was able to get it for 6k. Winter slows down at some of the schools do they drop their prices, plus adding a partner cuts the rates usually in half.

I have 4100 total, 3600 turbine, 0 TPIC, ATP with A320/E170/E145 types and worked hard at getting to know the right people and now I'm moving on to the majors. 5 1/2 years at the regionals, 2 companies and a furlough (actually still furloughed at my first carrier)

I know many of us have been pulled under and we're barely staying a float trying to find a way to the left seat, but we can either be Captain Bitter Pants or just say ****** it and figure out a way to move on. Even if that means skipping the left seat. Most places I'm coming to find out want FOs more than they want Captains. Apparently they've realized we're really good at sitting in the right seat.
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:42 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Oskeewowow
Are you really a line pilot? Your posts are often disturbing.

Wayne? Alex? Paul? Ron? Maybe someone from Seabury? Are you posting from Purdue rd?
Sorry my friend if I offended you with my optimistic attitude. Yes, I'm just a regular line pilot that has been through the same stuff a lot of you guys have, furloughed, displaced, 1st year pay for 2 years, etc and I still haven't cracked into a negative person. I've been elsewhere, seen the other side and right now this place really isn't that bad for a regional. Once we get a new contract it will be a nice place to work at.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:49 AM
  #115  
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320 eff oh
Posts: 277
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Originally Posted by MusicPilot
Definitely correct on the attitude. I did interviews here and I can tell you how many came in from other 121/135 operations with bad attitudes. You could even see it in their posture.

The biggest gift you can give yourself is networking. I don't just mean finding someone that'll throw your resume in, I mean getting them to go to bat for you. That's step one. Step two is to figure out how to separate your resume from everyone else's. The biggest part is format. Using key indentifiers helps out a lot. You should be getting your ATP of you already don't have it. If you have the resources to it go get typed in another jet. I got an A320 type (no limitations) to help out my resume. I was able to get it for 6k. Winter slows down at some of the schools do they drop their prices, plus adding a partner cuts the rates usually in half.

I have 4100 total, 3600 turbine, 0 TPIC, ATP with A320/E170/E145 types and worked hard at getting to know the right people and now I'm moving on to the majors. 5 1/2 years at the regionals, 2 companies and a furlough (actually still furloughed at my first carrier)

I know many of us have been pulled under and we're barely staying a float trying to find a way to the left seat, but we can either be Captain Bitter Pants or just say ****** it and figure out a way to move on. Even if that means skipping the left seat. Most places I'm coming to find out want FOs more than they want Captains. Apparently they've realized we're really good at sitting in the right seat.
Just curious.....you mention you have A320/E170/E145 types. I know you bought the A320 type but how did you obtain a 170 and 145 type and manage to have zero PIC time? Please tell me you aren't touting an SIC type......
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:07 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by RJet
Sorry my friend if I offended you with my optimistic attitude. Yes, I'm just a regular line pilot that has been through the same stuff a lot of you guys have, furloughed, displaced, 1st year pay for 2 years, etc and I still haven't cracked into a negative person. I've been elsewhere, seen the other side and right now this place really isn't that bad for a regional. Once we get a new contract it will be a nice place to work at.
What you see as optimistic, I see as defeatist. Where's your fire? Where's your burning desire for a new contract? With a widespread "it's not that bad attitude," we won't see a TA for another five years. Management wants nothing more than massive attrition to thin out the grizzled old vets and bring in new blood that are just happy to have a job. We are in the professional fight of our lives, and you want to just sit back and believe in a management team subscribing to the Fast Food model of turnover? Stand up for what you are worth and don't settle for "it could be worse." That is if you really are one of us, one of the 2000 rotting under a nine year old contract.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:14 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Oskeewowow
What you see as optimistic, I see as defeatist. Where's your fire? Where's your burning desire for a new contract? With a widespread "it's not that bad attitude," we won't see a TA for another five years. Management wants nothing more than massive attrition to thin out the grizzled old vets and bring in new blood that are just happy to have a job. We are in the professional fight of our lives, and you want to just sit back and believe in a management team subscribing to the Fast Food model of turnover? Stand up for what you are worth and don't settle for "it could be worse." That is if you really are one of us, one of the 2000 rotting under a nine year old contract.
Good pep talk but I pay good money to my union to represent me. Do you really believe that if we had all collectively wanted a contract just a little bit more then we would have one? About the only thing we can do collectively is fire the union and get a new one if we don't feel they are performing well. I choose not to become one of the disgruntled pilots that focuses all their energy on the negative. Life is too short for that.
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by RJet
Good pep talk but I pay good money to my union to represent me. Do you really believe that if we had all collectively wanted a contract just a little bit more then we would have one? About the only thing we can do collectively is fire the union and get a new one if we don't feel they are performing well. I choose not to become one of the disgruntled pilots that focuses all their energy on the negative. Life is too short for that.
This misconception clearly illustrates the greatest downfall of the RAH union. "The Union" is not the Bargaining Agent (IBT) or the leadership (EXCO).

The Union is the membership.

Historically, the RAH "union," as you mistakenly call it, has performed poorly because historically, 20-50 people out of the whole group try to make a difference while half of the remainder cheer from the sidelines and the other half heckle from the sidelines. It will not matter who the Bargaining Agent is or who the EXCO is; nothing will change until the RAH union starts to do something other than talk.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:15 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Hetman
This misconception clearly illustrates the greatest downfall of the RAH union. "The Union" is not the Bargaining Agent (IBT) or the leadership (EXCO).

The Union is the membership.

Historically, the RAH "union," as you mistakenly call it, has performed poorly because historically, 20-50 people out of the whole group try to make a difference while half of the remainder cheer from the sidelines and the other half heckle from the sidelines. It will not matter who the Bargaining Agent is or who the EXCO is; nothing will change until the RAH union starts to do something other than talk.
You are correct, I should have said union leadership. So who do you think really gets things done, the union members or the leaders? Who negotiates our benefits, wages and working conditions? Who decides if an issue is worthy enough or important enough for us to vote on collectively? We wouldn't need union leaders or need to pay dues if the members had the power to get things done.
Lets say that all 2,000 of us really tried to "make a difference" everyday. What specifically would this involve doing? I've heard the same general statements over and over but never any detailed actions of anything that will directly cause change. If it was an easy as an attitude or a weekly Super 8 dance, we would have already done it and have a contract.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:51 PM
  #120  
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Nobody said it would be easy.

A good start would be redirecting your energy from anonymously criticizing the leadership on public message boards. Beyond that, to do anything effectively will require leadership and initiative of your own.

Assuming you are willing to work with the present leadership (about whom I know nothing), your primary task will be to garner the support of the rank and file. When I say support, I mean practical support, not just expressions of support. The way to do this is through education and more importantly: visibility.

Does your domicile have a base rep? If so, that is the first place to turn. If not, guess what? Your domicile needs a rep. Either get with the current rep, if there is one, or you be the rep. Establish a communications portal where the pilots in your base have someone available 24/7 to address any kind of issue that may arise in which union representation may be required. Advice regarding grievances will be the most common issue, followed by Pro Standards.

Build a team. Encourage others to be part of the base rep team and advertise your services loudly. It may take some time, but eventually the pilots in the base will come to realize that you and your team are advocating for them. Word will get around that you are involved and effective. When that starts to happen you will find that support of the rank and file will follow, leading to a stronger union (in the true sense of the word).

Establish and maintain communication with the other base reps, to the same end as described in the paragraph above. Stay abreast of trends in what is occurring not just in your domicile, but in all the domiciles. Coordinate activities, always striving to be available and visible to the rank and file. Advertise (but don't embellish) your accomplishments at every opportunity.

Make no mistake, however: This will require a huge investment in time and energy. If your heart is not in it you will not succeed.

If this is more than you wish to take on, generally the communication and hospitality committees are always looking for help. Or there may be a committee in search of a chairman. If you have latent aggression, get with whoever is planning the strike (if and when). There is a lot of direct and hands-on work that needs willing hands and strong backs there. In these positions as well, strive for high success and high visibility among the rank and file. Point to the successes of the committee and your individual satisfaction in contributing to that success as you recruit others to join you.

If you are bound and determined to unseat either the Bargaining Agent or the EXCO, there are mechanisms in place and there are others who share your views.

Changing the Bargaining Agent is accomplished through the NMB. Their website contains all you need to know regarding the procedure. Be very careful if this is the path you choose. There is the dreaded "Seditious Weasel" clause in the Bylaws and Constitution of which others have run afoul in the past.

It has never been tested, only threatened, but either be very clear regarding your vulnerabilities here or be very discrete in the execution.

Your group can campaign for a recall of the EXCO. That procedure should be in the Bylaws.

The stupidest thing you can do is to go into either of these without a team in place that is ready to step in immediately with a plan that can be executed immediately. If you find yourselves saying "Yay! We won! Now what?" you will have failed before you began.

The least effective thing you can do (as in not effective at all) is complain in public under an assumed name.

Last edited by Hetman; 08-30-2012 at 09:27 PM.
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