Republic update
04-25-2012, 07:18 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 103
Tiller,
We know ALL about your pilot group. Aren't they ALL clones of you and other RAHbro APC posters? Arrogant, condescending, insecure, spiteful, immature, childish, entitled, militant, etc.? Requiring that harm be inflicted on whoever happens to be sitting on the other side of the table? Suffering through a life where the world of aviation is your enemy and rule #1 is to deflect blame anywhere but upon yourselves. Blindly following a path of conflict at every corner leaving behind a wake of dysfunction? Everyone seems to owe you guys something, right?
At least some of you guys are starting to question things a little more vocally. I'm impressed that some are questioning whether their negotiating committee is truly speaking for them. Whether your leaderships goal is to burn down the house or actually find a middle ground and fix things?
To all the other lurking RAHbros on board, take comfort in knowing that I am just jacking with with Tiller here. We all know that the vast majority of you are all normal humans working your way through a regional job in hopes of moving on to a much better job in the future. We've got clowns on both sides (believe me!) and this is where they like to play. Good luck in your efforts RAHbros.
Now, before I start to cry is guess I should collect myself and focus my energy on something constructive. I think I'll bust out my Oakley Half-Jackets and give ole 3662forlife a call. The glasses not only make me look really cool, but also help reduce the glare off of my really BIG and SHINY AIRBUS. 3662 might be able to use some extra beer money so I'm going to see if he's got some time to help me polish to a fine sheen.
BTW...Anyone take him up on his invite the other night?
Your #1 FROBRO, Mulva
We know ALL about your pilot group. Aren't they ALL clones of you and other RAHbro APC posters? Arrogant, condescending, insecure, spiteful, immature, childish, entitled, militant, etc.? Requiring that harm be inflicted on whoever happens to be sitting on the other side of the table? Suffering through a life where the world of aviation is your enemy and rule #1 is to deflect blame anywhere but upon yourselves. Blindly following a path of conflict at every corner leaving behind a wake of dysfunction? Everyone seems to owe you guys something, right?
At least some of you guys are starting to question things a little more vocally. I'm impressed that some are questioning whether their negotiating committee is truly speaking for them. Whether your leaderships goal is to burn down the house or actually find a middle ground and fix things?
To all the other lurking RAHbros on board, take comfort in knowing that I am just jacking with with Tiller here. We all know that the vast majority of you are all normal humans working your way through a regional job in hopes of moving on to a much better job in the future. We've got clowns on both sides (believe me!) and this is where they like to play. Good luck in your efforts RAHbros.
Now, before I start to cry is guess I should collect myself and focus my energy on something constructive. I think I'll bust out my Oakley Half-Jackets and give ole 3662forlife a call. The glasses not only make me look really cool, but also help reduce the glare off of my really BIG and SHINY AIRBUS. 3662 might be able to use some extra beer money so I'm going to see if he's got some time to help me polish to a fine sheen.
BTW...Anyone take him up on his invite the other night?
Your #1 FROBRO, Mulva
You certainly know how to sway people to your point of view.
On another note, I know if I had to pay full shop fees and either get something for it or get nothing for it...Id go with something. To say "I'm doing it and ill cry the whole way, yet I wont try and make a positive change" sounds reallllly weak.
Step up to the plate...the rhetoric is getting old.
04-26-2012, 05:43 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: A-320 Asst. Pilot
Posts: 423
InsideOut,
I'm done swaying as that's a lost cause, plus you guys are big boys and don't need anyone else telling you what to do. Now, of course, me being the dumb a$$ F9 troll that I am, I do appreciate your efforts to keep me informed of all the excellent benefits the brotherhood has in store for me once I pony up the extra $8 bucks a month to become a full fledged card carrying member.
I'm pretty sure I get almost ALL of those benefits right now except for having a vote. IBT357 has an obligation to properly administer the F9 CBA and protect the interests of Frontier pilots by defending and upholding what was previously bargained for in that CBA.
That's all I care about. I have no interest in the 15% AT&T wireless discount (or the $36 activation fee waiver), the Teamster privilege credit card, vision care, mortgage, or auto, homeowner's and renters insurance deals. I'm a Mac guys so don't need the Dell discount. If I run into trouble with the Feds, FAPAs (STILL HERE....did you see their LM-2?) got my back with Legal fee support so I don't need the Teamsters legal services. There is a chance that I could someday use the Teamsters UnionPlus florists discount, but I'll roll the dice on that one.
I hate to sound like a dick, but I don't care to affect positive change at the RAH regional side of things. It is not my business and I don't intend for it to be. I know I'm delusional, but I'm banking on nothing less than being separated from RAH in the next 12 months (hopefully WAY sooner!). The fundamental flaw in your thinking (and Tiller's and some others) is that we are somehow wasting time delaying the inevitable. As if we haven't accepted the fact that we will forever be "one" and might as well act like it. Maybe we are delusional, but we NEVER intend to be one if we can help it. Why join the 357 if we don't need to? Do you really think they are going to bend over backwards supporting and protecting our interests when they are actively opposing them at the same time?
Like I've said before, I wish you all the best of luck. I'm just not planning on joining your party. You guys are suddenly doing a fine job putting your leadership on notice that maybe the process has run off the tracks, tactics are flawed, that going on 6 years with an amendable contract (that was in effect for only 4) might be wearing on the troops. I'm sorry, not IBTs fault in any way, just the Company "conquering and dividing" right? Anyone frustrated, losing faith or getting impatient? Here's hoping all those F9 "core payer" fees help you guys fight the fight and continue the battle. Hell, I guess I should look at it like we are actually supporting you and trying to make things better, at least by helping to bankroll the efforts.
I'm done swaying as that's a lost cause, plus you guys are big boys and don't need anyone else telling you what to do. Now, of course, me being the dumb a$$ F9 troll that I am, I do appreciate your efforts to keep me informed of all the excellent benefits the brotherhood has in store for me once I pony up the extra $8 bucks a month to become a full fledged card carrying member.
I'm pretty sure I get almost ALL of those benefits right now except for having a vote. IBT357 has an obligation to properly administer the F9 CBA and protect the interests of Frontier pilots by defending and upholding what was previously bargained for in that CBA.
That's all I care about. I have no interest in the 15% AT&T wireless discount (or the $36 activation fee waiver), the Teamster privilege credit card, vision care, mortgage, or auto, homeowner's and renters insurance deals. I'm a Mac guys so don't need the Dell discount. If I run into trouble with the Feds, FAPAs (STILL HERE....did you see their LM-2?) got my back with Legal fee support so I don't need the Teamsters legal services. There is a chance that I could someday use the Teamsters UnionPlus florists discount, but I'll roll the dice on that one.
I hate to sound like a dick, but I don't care to affect positive change at the RAH regional side of things. It is not my business and I don't intend for it to be. I know I'm delusional, but I'm banking on nothing less than being separated from RAH in the next 12 months (hopefully WAY sooner!). The fundamental flaw in your thinking (and Tiller's and some others) is that we are somehow wasting time delaying the inevitable. As if we haven't accepted the fact that we will forever be "one" and might as well act like it. Maybe we are delusional, but we NEVER intend to be one if we can help it. Why join the 357 if we don't need to? Do you really think they are going to bend over backwards supporting and protecting our interests when they are actively opposing them at the same time?
Like I've said before, I wish you all the best of luck. I'm just not planning on joining your party. You guys are suddenly doing a fine job putting your leadership on notice that maybe the process has run off the tracks, tactics are flawed, that going on 6 years with an amendable contract (that was in effect for only 4) might be wearing on the troops. I'm sorry, not IBTs fault in any way, just the Company "conquering and dividing" right? Anyone frustrated, losing faith or getting impatient? Here's hoping all those F9 "core payer" fees help you guys fight the fight and continue the battle. Hell, I guess I should look at it like we are actually supporting you and trying to make things better, at least by helping to bankroll the efforts.
Last edited by Mulva; 04-26-2012 at 06:06 AM.
04-26-2012, 03:05 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 103
I hate to sound like a dick, but I don't care to affect positive change at the RAH regional side of things. It is not my business and I don't intend for it to be. I know I'm delusional, but I'm banking on nothing less than being separated from RAH in the next 12 months (hopefully WAY sooner!). The fundamental flaw in your thinking (and Tiller's and some others) is that we are somehow wasting time delaying the inevitable. As if we haven't accepted the fact that we will forever be "one" and might as well act like it. Maybe we are delusional, but we NEVER intend to be one if we can help it. Why join the 357 if we don't need to? Do you really think they are going to bend over backwards supporting and protecting our interests when they are actively opposing them at the same time?
Like I've said before, I wish you all the best of luck. I'm just not planning on joining your party. You guys are suddenly doing a fine job putting your leadership on notice that maybe the process has run off the tracks, tactics are flawed, that going on 6 years with an amendable contract (that was in effect for only 4) might be wearing on the troops. I'm sorry, not IBTs fault in any way, just the Company "conquering and dividing" right? Anyone frustrated, losing faith or getting impatient? Here's hoping all those F9 "core payer" fees help you guys fight the fight and continue the battle. Hell, I guess I should look at it like we are actually supporting you and trying to make things better, at least by helping to bankroll the efforts.
I never wanted to have single carrier status go through.
I never wanted fences for equipment.
I never wanted an integrated seniority list (USAir and AW? That turned out great!!)
Hell, I never wanted RAH to buy F9, tho I understood it from a business standpoint. RAH felt they needed to recoup money invested, and if they could do it for pennies on the dollar, why not?But look at the crap storm it brought.
See, I honestly think that the mentality at F9 is that we want your equipment which I can tell you is really not true. Not trying to be a dick either, but you guys are a regional airline with airbusses(what exactly is the plural???lol) and higher payrates. Most of us dont want a lateral move...most sight are set on Delta, UniCal, FedEx, UPS... the stars...no one wants to stay under whatever umbrella RAH is or will be. Along the way, my thing is I wish the F9and RAH guys on here and even on the line would just tone the BS down...I guess that's why I really never posted here but this thread has made me post out the wazoo. A bunch of people (F9'ers and RAH'ers) is acting like a bunch of crybabies at recess telling the teacher either people wont play with them or people won't play fair.
Who cares? Life isn't fair. Wake up, take a shower, play with the kids, dig a hole in the back yard, play golf.... and maybe go to work. (4 days off then a 2 day then 4 days off? SICKATION!!) Everyone just freaking chill and hang out, live life. Getting stressed about crap like this is really a waste of time.
I also wish you guys the best of luck in whatever comes. I honestly do. Hopefully its a divestiture from RAH without BB fingers in the pudding. Where it goes from there is any guess, hopefully onward and upward.....
04-26-2012, 07:10 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/g3q58q82/lan/en
Listen at :30:23
Question was posted from Helane Becker of Dahlman Rose
For those not familiar, she is referring to a "mesaba" bk. RAH already has threatened the same exact type of "cleave" against the Frontier pilots.
Best of luck to those involved. It is going to get ugly.
Listen at :30:23
Question was posted from Helane Becker of Dahlman Rose
For those not familiar, she is referring to a "mesaba" bk. RAH already has threatened the same exact type of "cleave" against the Frontier pilots.
Best of luck to those involved. It is going to get ugly.
04-27-2012, 01:33 PM
#77
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320, Left
Posts: 15
Mulva- well said!
I might add that if we were to become members of the IBT we would no longer be allowed to be members of FAPA. ( Dual Unionism ) The problem with that I get far more information and communication from FAPA than anyone I've talked to gets from the IBT. Information about jumpseating, KCM, hotels, schedules, security, financials, retirement, FAA, Safety...
For me the Union has always been about so much more than negotiating and upholding a contract. It helps to improve my lifestyle every time I come to work. Yes the IBT administers both of our contracts ( how well we will save for another conversation ), but what else have they done for any of us lately?
I might add that if we were to become members of the IBT we would no longer be allowed to be members of FAPA. ( Dual Unionism ) The problem with that I get far more information and communication from FAPA than anyone I've talked to gets from the IBT. Information about jumpseating, KCM, hotels, schedules, security, financials, retirement, FAA, Safety...
For me the Union has always been about so much more than negotiating and upholding a contract. It helps to improve my lifestyle every time I come to work. Yes the IBT administers both of our contracts ( how well we will save for another conversation ), but what else have they done for any of us lately?
04-27-2012, 02:15 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 108
Mulva- well said!
I might add that if we were to become members of the IBT we would no longer be allowed to be members of FAPA. ( Dual Unionism ) The problem with that I get far more information and communication from FAPA than anyone I've talked to gets from the IBT. Information about jumpseating, KCM, hotels, schedules, security, financials, retirement, FAA, Safety...
For me the Union has always been about so much more than negotiating and upholding a contract. It helps to improve my lifestyle every time I come to work. Yes the IBT administers both of our contracts ( how well we will save for another conversation ), but what else have they done for any of us lately?
I might add that if we were to become members of the IBT we would no longer be allowed to be members of FAPA. ( Dual Unionism ) The problem with that I get far more information and communication from FAPA than anyone I've talked to gets from the IBT. Information about jumpseating, KCM, hotels, schedules, security, financials, retirement, FAA, Safety...
For me the Union has always been about so much more than negotiating and upholding a contract. It helps to improve my lifestyle every time I come to work. Yes the IBT administers both of our contracts ( how well we will save for another conversation ), but what else have they done for any of us lately?
04-27-2012, 07:32 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
No, FAPA is both a labor organization and a union...unless you have some definition that I haven't seen. If so, please enlighten us.
04-27-2012, 09:46 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: Fighting the Good fight
Posts: 112
FAPA was our 'past' Union, and now; simply an association of F9 pilots.
You are correct in saying a 'dues paying member (of ibt) can pay fee's to "some" other entity, ie - FAPA, NRA, PETA, Acorn, What-Ever The F_ck EVER'; but sir YOU Miss the POINT. We 'CAN' pay fees to anything and Anyone we desire but Again you miss the point.
The point is, we don't want to fund Both sides. As 'Core fee Payers' we pay the fees we are Required Under the LAW; that mnb decide we should/MUST pay ibt for their 'services' in representing and defending our cba. Even though those same people using our own funds will/ ARE currentlty ATTACKING US at the same time.
(take a second - is that asking TOoooo Much..?? and just think about that for a moment.).
We are paying MONEY for our ibt to sue ourselves..... thats as clear as MUD...'
Enjoy your weekend, enjoy church, or your families or just yourselves....; go forth and tell them again how you rate OUR jobs, our pay, our rules.. OUR Whatever; Remeber TAKE TAKE TAKE.....
Take what You Wish.. Know it is 'Someones', And prepare yourself to pay the price.
maybe today, maybe tomarrow, maybe 10 to 20 YEARS from now.
Make no mistake you pos, you WILL pay..
You are correct 'fault' that fapa IS an Association; However..
It is NOT A Union..
Get your $hit strait.
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