FAULTPUSH

Mulva - you need to understand that the airline division of IBT is a very small, perhaps even insignificant (in IBT National's eyes) part of the organization. It probably wouldn't have hurt if the RAH pilots had realized that about 2 years ago.

SeaRider

So what if we had?

Mulva, what exactly is your point? It seems both sides may be playing games with lawsuits. Is your point that the IBT sucks? Great, for argument's sake, we'll say you are right...case closed. So, what is the point?

I keep going back to this topic because I know it relates, however I feel like i'm beating a dead horse. IBT was the clear lesser of evils at the time of the card drive for union representation. FAPA made it clear thier disdain for all things RAH particularly our pilot group. FAPA wanted nothing to do with us. RPC was (or at least appeared) a reincarnation of FAPA, and was silent during the card drive period.

That left IBT. IBT has screwed us royally in the past (which I hope my brothers and sisters don't forget), but we had a brand-new local, and a new EXCO comprised of trusted members of our pilot group.

I still attest to this day: In the months leading up to and including the card drive period, FAPA had 1st and goal at the 10yd line, and threw a pick-6 to IBT.

Like someone mentioned, this is our careers. So, who would elect union representation from an entity(ies) that has no interest in the well-being of our pilot group?

That being said, I would submit that there is too much blind faith over here for the IBT. To me, this mirrors religion. A group of people afraid an unknown/lack of afterlife turn to blind faith and the promise of eternal life and heaven. Naysayers are subject to mob mentality, and are cursed as the devil and burned at the stake. (hey, how's it going 3662forlife?) Some on the local357 board are so quick to jump on anyone who even questions what is going on. Blind faith and mob mentality all the way!

This pilot group is so fed-up with abusive work rules, despicable pay, contract violations, and an incompetent managment group that blames the pilots for thier shortcomings and is determined to beat them into submission. The IBT is viewed by many as the savior. Right or wrong, that's all we have.

I know that personally, I need to make more than 33K next year, and would like to spend more than 8 days/mo. at home. If this doesn't change, I don't think I'll make it.

So tell me, F9wisebros, what exactly to you think us RAHbros over here oughta do?

-SR

Mulva

My point is that IBT357 appears to be more of the same old $hi+ for you guys. FAPA, RPC, ALPA aside, that is all in the past. No longer pertinent to the discussion. That game is over. Present and future is all that matters at this point. Like you said, IBT was the lesser of the evils and it may have been the best worst choice you had. I get it. Just make sure they are truly working for you with your best interests in mind. I've been pointing out for the last 6 weeks that IBT357 (and National) are master manipulators and misrepresent/spin information in a masterful way. Don't let them.

You said it! Too many of your guys appear to blindly follow along, but I am encouraged that more recently, some are starting to question the Teamsters tactics and communications. For better or worse, you are all stuck with the Teamsters for now. You're committed so you might as well make sure they are doing the best possible job they can for YOU since YOU are covering the bill with YOUR DUES (and ours too!). I hear the 357 has an open book policy regarding their finances. All you need to do is stop by the office and check them out, right? Anyone ever try that? My understanding is that they are a little sensitive to having "members" view such material. This is your money fellas so make sure they are spending it wisely.

The only thing the Teamsters appear to do well is screw people, often including their own members. Draw the line!


Answer #1:

Keep your representatives honest. Ask them to communicate the truth to you in a timely manner, not 10 days later, after the message has been professionally massaged to meet their needs. Good news is good news, bad news is bad news, just make sure they are giving you the good and the bad, a.k.a "the truth."

The only thing that sucks more than lack of communication is being communicated to in a way that often (and repeatedly) misrepresents the truth. That might be summed up as disingenuous and it is exactly the game your representatives are playing. Put them on the hot seat and keep them honest.

As for the Known Crewmember situation, IBT represents airline pilots as do the other organizations who attended the most recent meeting/conference call. The fact that IBT did not participate suggests to me that they either (1) chose not to attend or (2) were not aware of such meeting. In either case, this is a gross example of their failure as stewards of your best interests. Maybe one of your guys (3662?) can ask them to comment on the circumstances associated with their lack of participation. I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have passed on a meeting of similar significance related to pipe fitters, beer brewers or Twinkie makers. But then again, that is the their bread and butter, not Airline pilots.

Answer #2:

Quit and find a better job!

FAULTPUSH

You ought to run a card drive for a new election, and vote in ALPA or your own in-house union. Unfortunately, as full members of IBT, you're not allowed to do that.

Mulva

CONSTITUTION of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Yup, I guess that rules that idea out. Once a Teamster always a Teamster.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...3VZkS_SBaFRT9Q

Mulva

Believe it or not RAHbros, this "troll" truly attempts to limit his content to factual information and personal opinion. That being said, I believe I owe you all an apology for spreading a little misinformation myself.

I knew it was too good to be true yesterday when I quoted all those statements from the "Judge." I was beside myself with joy as the quotes were appearing like manna from heaven. I absolutely did not recall reading them before in the 3/29 opinion, but was more than happy to assume I had just not paid enough attention. For good reason as I discovered when Ronaldo called me out and I went back and reviewed. Looks like I spaced out and didn't realize I was actually perusing the 8/3/11 court filing so, pretty much, all of those quotes came from attorneys arguing on behalf of Frontier pilots.

OOPS!

Makes me look like a bit of an idiot which I'm sure you already figured I was anyway. Made for good reading though, didn't it? Anyway, being a man of disingenuousity (or is it disingenuousesness?) I thought it best to fess up. That will teach me, eh? Thanks for bringing it to my attention Ronaldo.

The core of my argument still stands though: that IBT is a spin machine!

SeaRider

Thanks for owning up. Many on this board wouldn't.

Regarding your Answer #1 above: There seems to be more of that occuring everyday. But one can't go blindly AGAINST the E-board and IBT either. The question that can be asked at almost every step is: Is the IBT 'spinning' points and misbehaving, or are we succumbing to managment's union-busting-101 & divisiveness tactics? I'm not casting an argument for either, but it's rhetoric from both sides every week. We're left guessing what is really happening with this super-secret-squirrel-behind-closed-doors garbage.

Regarding your Answer #2: Amen to that. The question remains of how long are we stuck in this situation, and how are we going to make it better for those that work here in the future.

-SR

F9 A319

I did not make post #37 and have asked a Mod to take it down. 3662 seems to be infiltrating several message boards and hijacking users at the same time.

MusicPilot

Hmmm, Republic update = IBT v FAPA. Maybe someone should start that thread.

inside0ut

Good thing that point just totally flew by ya.

And I assure you that there is not "growing dissension" in the ranks. You keep holding on to that thought. Hope it keeps you warm at night.