F9 A319

First, FAPA has a contractual agreement with Frontier to cover 1,200 hours of Flight Pay Loss a year. 357 has taken those 1,200 hours hostage and will not release them unless the Frontier pilots meet the completely unwritten policy (as in it doesn’t exist) that the hours apply only to "Members in Good Standing" with IBT 357.

MOREOVER, I don’t believe IBT 357 paid a dime (including Flight Pay Loss) for any Frontier Committees, even though they use a very important committee that wouldn’t exist without FAPA (HIMS).

Therefore, that was an IBT 357 decision that could have saved a boatload of money for 357 in FPL if 357 weren't so hard over on "Members in Good Standing" or have reached an agreement with FAPA for a joint council. That decision cost IBT 357 serious money, and it will continue to.

Second, IBT National and 357 have made a conscious decision to pursue a number of lawsuits that border on frivolous. Even if they win the lawsuits, it accomplishes very little, outside of an ego boost.

Again, it was IBT and 357's decision to spend that money.

Third, only 19.3% ($31,783 for arbitrations) of your legal fees, excluding Marc Anderson, are for legal issues other than "Contract Negotiations." The rest is all Bill Wilder ($132,822) and very little has been achieved considering the amount spent on Wilder.

All in (with Marc’s $143,744), it looks like $308,349 spent on legal fees. In addition, IBT 357 spent $443,145 in Flight Pay Loss, which comes to a total of $751,494.

FAPA spent $251,290 on legal fees plus $25,816 on arbitration fees and zero dollars on Flight Pay Loss for a total of $277,106. That includes $22,000 to Eischen.

Where is IBT 357’s expenditure on Eischen? Did IBT National pick up that tab?

While we’re at it, where is the money IBT spent on behalf of the former Midwest pilots in arbitration clarification and legal fees? Did IBT National pay for that as well?

Read the LM-2’s, I’m sure we’ll have a few areas we can discuss.

inside0ut

I think its a totally smart idea to pay full union dues, yet not join the union...and then ask for money from said union that you didn't join.

Money.Well.Spent.

freezingflyboy

So maybe an abbreviation was a poor choice in that instance.

Mulva

Ahhh, but the Frontier FPL does not come from ANY dues. It comes from the company. One of those things we negotiated as part of our CBA to help avoid expenses like $443K in FPL the 357 spent last year.

Here's the exact language in the Frontier Pilot's CBA:


Unfortunately, as F9 A319 mentioned, the IBT is "holding hostage" the 1200 FPL allocated to Frontier CBA business, citing rules that do not exist. They appear to have redefined the word "Pilots" to mean "IBT357 Members in Good Standing"


It's not really an issue of Frontier pilots asking for money from the IBT, it's really just Frontier pilots asking the IBT to allow them to utilize the FPL allocated to them (at the Company's expense, not IBT) by their CBA.

3662forlife

Off 2 MB’s….. I think u can figure out which 2…. Working on my spelling after being chastised on my own board.

The qustion from MB1 was-

“Just went through security in DEN and a TSA agent asked me what I thought of the new rules for pilots. I said I hadn't heard of any. He said just wait and see. I asked again what they were. He said lets just say its going to go from very bad now to very good for us ( pilots ) soon. Maybe he was talking about known crew member access expanding? Anyone else have any ideas?”

The answer from MB2 is-


“On April 11, 2012, ALPA sponsored a meeting regarding the progress of the Known Crewmember Program.

Present were:

Capt. Lee Moak, ALPA President
Capt. Sean Cassidy, ALPA First VP
Jerry Wright, Manager, Aviation Safety & Security, ALPA
Marie Schwartz, Director, Communications, ALPA
Keith Hagy, Director, Engineering & Air Safety, ALPA
David Berg, A4A Sr. VP and General Counsel/Secretary
Craig Lowe, Director, Security Operations, A4A
Jeff Broady, FAPA, Vice President (on the phone)
Bill Cason, IPA Security (on the phone)
Steve Sevier, USAPA Security
Gary Cason, SWAPA Security

It was a very informative meeting and answered many questions regarding the future of the Known Crewmember Program.”

Wonder why MB1 didnt know what MB2 knew?



So on with the 15 sec news bite of a picket on May 2 about our “freedom of speech” lawsuit with RAH suing 357 over over RAHcontract.org websight!!

Why does my union think freedom of speech only applies to union statements, actions or websights, but not to me?

“This suit is beyond simple disagreement and claims of “false statements” it is intended to suppress our Union’s freedom of speech.”

“The Local will provide hotel rooms and transportation to and from the courthouse.”

“Do not park at a parking meter. You will not be reimbursed for parking citations.”

So, if I live out of IND, my hotel and transpotation is free but if I live in IND I have to pay my tickets? I’d bet all the tickets i've gotton in my life are cheaper then then the hotels and transpotation. Steller monies management once again......

Mulva

3662.

You kinda need to work on your formatting too! I'll give you a break since you are kind of new here, but that's a lot of quotes and info and I'm not quite sure what is yours and what is copied/pasted from some other site. Take a look at the "advanced" format option when posting. It's got some cool tools for highlighting quotes, etc. Maybe just the fact that I'm looking at this on my iPhone too so my apologies if that is the case.

Anyway, I would agree that Mr. TSA must have been referring to the Known Crewmember program as you referenced. Funny thing is, looking at the list of individuals present at that meeting (in person or by calling in), I see ALPA, USAPA, SWAPA and even FAPA represented, but no reference to the Teamsters. Is this program (something that will positively impact each and ever IBT Airline Division member) not important enough for at least someone to call in?

Where is your representation? Maybe they are cutting back on the FPL spending, huh? Too busy getting ready to picket (a favorite activity of Teamsters) in front of a courthouse? Am I reading it correctly that IBT will be paying for hotels and transportation to the picket-fest? I'm sure that'll be union dues and assessment dollars well spent.

Is anyone over there wondering W*F is going on at IBT? This is your career, not some type of game. I'm thinking I ought to look up the past 4 years LM-2 numbers for 357/747 and see exactly how much money they have flushed while showing just about squat for results (scope TA'd I guess). WHEN (IF) they get y'all a nice raise, how long is it going to take before that raise becomes a net benefit? The way IBT spends/takes your (and now our) money, I imagine it'll be a while before any raise offsets the costs associated with getting it.

Sure am glad I'm not a Teamster.

F9 A319

I don't know any Frontier pilot paying full union dues. I also don't personally know any Frontier pilot that is a member of 357.

Furthermore, I don't know of a time when FAPA or a Frontier pilot has asked for any money from 357. In what context are you referring to FAPA or a singular F9 pilot asking for 357 money?

Based on the LM-2's it seems FAPA is doing quite a bit better than 357 financially, we don't want or need your money. It would be nice if 357 stopped trying to take FAPA's money and released our 1,200 hours of Flight Pay Loss, if for no other reason than to save 357 money. It could really be a win-win situation.

There also seems to be a level of dissension growing in 357's ranks, if one were to listen (and be able to interpret 3662forLife's posts).

Mulva

Be nice F9 A319. He'll get it together. I'm actually liking some of the topics he's throwing down.

3662forlife

Mulva, I'll try to make it easy for you & others

Magenta is me.

Blue is IBT

Green is another MB

Off 2 MB’s….. I think u can figure out which 2…. Working on my spelling after being chastised on my own board.

The qustion from MB1 was-

“Just went through security in DEN and a TSA agent asked me what I thought of the new rules for pilots. I said I hadn't heard of any. He said just wait and see. I asked again what they were. He said lets just say its going to go from very bad now to very good for us ( pilots ) soon. Maybe he was talking about known crew member access expanding? Anyone else have any ideas?”

The answer from MB2 is-


“On April 11, 2012, ALPA sponsored a meeting regarding the progress of the Known Crewmember Program.

Present were:

Capt. Lee Moak, ALPA President
Capt. Sean Cassidy, ALPA First VP
Jerry Wright, Manager, Aviation Safety & Security, ALPA
Marie Schwartz, Director, Communications, ALPA
Keith Hagy, Director, Engineering & Air Safety, ALPA
David Berg, A4A Sr. VP and General Counsel/Secretary
Craig Lowe, Director, Security Operations, A4A
Jeff Broady, FAPA, Vice President (on the phone)
Bill Cason, IPA Security (on the phone)
Steve Sevier, USAPA Security
Gary Cason, SWAPA Security

It was a very informative meeting and answered many questions regarding the future of the Known Crewmember Program.”

Wonder why MB1 didnt know what MB2 knew?



So on with the 15 sec news bite of a picket on May 2 about our “freedom of speech” lawsuit with RAH suing 357 over over RAHcontract.org websight!!

Why does my union think freedom of speech only applies to union statements, actions or websights, but not to me?

“This suit is beyond simple disagreement and claims of “false statements” it is intended to suppress our Union’s freedom of speech.”

“The Local will provide hotel rooms and transportation to and from the courthouse.”

“Do not park at a parking meter. You will not be reimbursed for parking citations.”

So, if I live out of IND, my hotel and transpotation is free but if I live in IND I have to pay my tickets? I’d bet all the tickets i've gotton in my life are cheaper then then the hotels and transpotation for one pilot. Steller monies management once again......

Dang thats just a work o' art

hesitant

I just want to say that I hope all works out for Republic pilots. It is high time thet the people at the regionals made a stand, and that appears to be exactly what you people are doing. Good luck to all of you!