Training delay
09-20-2018, 09:10 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,091
I'm currently in sims in St. Louis. The sims are so backed up that my sim sessions have been encroaching on the maintenance window (2-6AM). I got out of the sim between 2:30-3:00AM for the first four sims. This morning I walked out of the building at 3:45AM and when we stopped about 25 minutes prior the sim next to us was still moving. The sim shortage is real and will be the limiting factor in training for the foreseeable future.
Which brings me to point out...
Most people in the program seem to be lacking in either MCDU (FMS) programming skills or knowledge of flows and profiles (callouts). A few people in my class clearly did not study and had no business being anywhere near an EFPT, let alone a sim, but somehow they muddled through EFPT to get to the sims. Rather than point fingers I'll just say that if you are weak in the EFPTs you will drown in the sims as everything is accelerated.
The instructors were forced to decouple at least two crews in my class and send the more proficient people home so the less proficient people could get their act together. Unfortunately, these slackers are taking up more sim sessions / slots that could otherwise be put to good use.
You'll hear this during indoc and systems classes from the various sim instructors that will stop by, but I'll repeat it anyway: stay late every night in systems with the MCDU / systems trainers until you can program the box in 15 minutes or less, and know your flows and profiles cold before EFPT.
Learning all of this stuff was an understandably tall order for my class as we sailed right through (i.e. we had basically no delays between indoc, systems and EFPTs) but for those that are coming in now, being given an ipad with Ethos and sent home for more than 2 weeks there is NO EXCUSE not to know this stuff cold before EFPT, let alone sims. Do yourself and everyone else who uses the E170 sims in St Louis a favor -- STUDY your ass off and finish the program on schedule.
Which brings me to point out...
Most people in the program seem to be lacking in either MCDU (FMS) programming skills or knowledge of flows and profiles (callouts). A few people in my class clearly did not study and had no business being anywhere near an EFPT, let alone a sim, but somehow they muddled through EFPT to get to the sims. Rather than point fingers I'll just say that if you are weak in the EFPTs you will drown in the sims as everything is accelerated.
The instructors were forced to decouple at least two crews in my class and send the more proficient people home so the less proficient people could get their act together. Unfortunately, these slackers are taking up more sim sessions / slots that could otherwise be put to good use.
You'll hear this during indoc and systems classes from the various sim instructors that will stop by, but I'll repeat it anyway: stay late every night in systems with the MCDU / systems trainers until you can program the box in 15 minutes or less, and know your flows and profiles cold before EFPT.
Learning all of this stuff was an understandably tall order for my class as we sailed right through (i.e. we had basically no delays between indoc, systems and EFPTs) but for those that are coming in now, being given an ipad with Ethos and sent home for more than 2 weeks there is NO EXCUSE not to know this stuff cold before EFPT, let alone sims. Do yourself and everyone else who uses the E170 sims in St Louis a favor -- STUDY your ass off and finish the program on schedule.
09-20-2018, 09:18 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: E170 CA/LCA
Posts: 621
This. Do not think you can slack because there is a “pilot shortage” they won’t blink an eye if you’re not putting the effort forth.
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09-20-2018, 09:42 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 344
That said, however, if you simply don't study, particularly early on with systems training, it will be obvious and you will be let go. This is in no way a "no show" or "gimme" job. Oh, and just because the company hires you does not mean you have the skills or ability to get through training. I'm on sim 5 of 8 before my checkride and I still have my doubts as to whether I'll pass my checkride. This is NOT EASY.
09-20-2018, 09:53 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Position: Non-standard Phraseology Curator
Posts: 297
I'm currently in sims in St. Louis. The sims are so backed up that my sim sessions have been encroaching on the maintenance window (2-6AM). I got out of the sim between 2:30-3:00AM for the first four sims. This morning I walked out of the building at 3:45AM and when we stopped about 25 minutes prior the sim next to us was still moving. The sim shortage is real and will be the limiting factor in training for the foreseeable future.
Which brings me to point out...
Most people in the program seem to be lacking in either MCDU (FMS) programming skills or knowledge of flows and profiles (callouts). A few people in my class clearly did not study and had no business being anywhere near an EFPT, let alone a sim, but somehow they muddled through EFPT to get to the sims. Rather than point fingers I'll just say that if you are weak in the EFPTs you will drown in the sims as everything is accelerated.
The instructors were forced to decouple at least two crews in my class and send the more proficient people home so the less proficient people could get their act together. Unfortunately, these slackers are taking up more sim sessions / slots that could otherwise be put to good use.
You'll hear this during indoc and systems classes from the various sim instructors that will stop by, but I'll repeat it anyway: stay late every night in systems with the MCDU / systems trainers until you can program the box in 15 minutes or less, and know your flows and profiles cold before EFPT.
Learning all of this stuff was an understandably tall order for my class as we sailed right through (i.e. we had basically no delays between indoc, systems and EFPTs) but for those that are coming in now, being given an ipad with Ethos and sent home for more than 2 weeks there is NO EXCUSE not to know this stuff cold before EFPT, let alone sims. Do yourself and everyone else who uses the E170 sims in St Louis a favor -- STUDY your ass off and finish the program on schedule.
Which brings me to point out...
Most people in the program seem to be lacking in either MCDU (FMS) programming skills or knowledge of flows and profiles (callouts). A few people in my class clearly did not study and had no business being anywhere near an EFPT, let alone a sim, but somehow they muddled through EFPT to get to the sims. Rather than point fingers I'll just say that if you are weak in the EFPTs you will drown in the sims as everything is accelerated.
The instructors were forced to decouple at least two crews in my class and send the more proficient people home so the less proficient people could get their act together. Unfortunately, these slackers are taking up more sim sessions / slots that could otherwise be put to good use.
You'll hear this during indoc and systems classes from the various sim instructors that will stop by, but I'll repeat it anyway: stay late every night in systems with the MCDU / systems trainers until you can program the box in 15 minutes or less, and know your flows and profiles cold before EFPT.
Learning all of this stuff was an understandably tall order for my class as we sailed right through (i.e. we had basically no delays between indoc, systems and EFPTs) but for those that are coming in now, being given an ipad with Ethos and sent home for more than 2 weeks there is NO EXCUSE not to know this stuff cold before EFPT, let alone sims. Do yourself and everyone else who uses the E170 sims in St Louis a favor -- STUDY your ass off and finish the program on schedule.
It's VERY easy to slip through the cracks and show up in STL underprepared -- or in the specific case njd1 is talking about, barely prepared at all. It was the culmination of many weeks of being distracted by outside things, and most importantly, not working with his sim partner or participating in group study. It's a matter of prioritizing what's important, and if this isn't going to be the most important thing in your life right now, then you should probably quit. Guys would have been washed out after indoc in a different hiring environment no questions asked. If you're the guy that no one sees in group study or studying with your sim partner into the wee hours, you're probably not going to be the guy to make it to the line. They can only feed you a small fraction of the information during class hours; the bulk must be got on your own and working with others.
The training department wants everyone to succeed, and they'll go out of their way to accommodate everyone, but A LOT of that is predicated on the student letting them know exactly what they need. If you are still struggling with anything, there is ample time between all training events to get caught up. You just have to be able to put your big boy pants on, swallow your pride, and ask for it. Don't be afraid to ask for more EFPT, more nights in IND to work on the FMS trainers, or more time (i.e. hotel nights, travel, etc.) with your sim partner going through flows and callouts. Do your sim partner, every instructor, and all the other students a favor and show up, beyond the shadow of a doubt, ready to rock and roll. The sims come hard and fast, and there isn't time to dick around with basic training that should have been had weeks before. Any weaknesses/unpreparedness is going to come out glaring and tenfold. FMS, flows, callouts need to be absolutely proficient, and FOM/SOP knowledge needs to be solid.
09-20-2018, 10:12 AM
#125
Gets Weekdays Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Position: E170
Posts: 152
Training delay
This is in no way a "no show" or "gimme" job. Oh, and just because the company hires you does not mean you have the skills or ability to get through training. I'm on sim 5 of 8 before my checkride and I still have my doubts as to whether I'll pass my checkride. This is NOT EASY.
A few guys in my class had previous 121 time and/or jet time, and they didn’t make it through the sims. That just goes to show that nothing can really replace the study effort required. The sim is for learning the hand/eye coordination and communication skills, not the stuff that you should have known many weeks prior. Find the way(s) that work for you to learn what you need to know before you start burning through your sim lessons. For some that means writing or typing notes, creating diagrams and tables, talking with classmates, and/or chair flying. Some learn better in groups, and others will need some alone time.
09-20-2018, 01:56 PM
#126
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Position: Wannabe
Posts: 34
Ethos unfortunately was not unlocked for those of us in this latest class. They wanted us to focus on the manuals and then jump on ethos during that two week time period. My biggest concern in all of this is the FMS functions so having access to that on Ethos would've been nice.
09-20-2018, 02:07 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 121
Ethos unfortunately was not unlocked for those of us in this latest class. They wanted us to focus on the manuals and then jump on ethos during that two week time period. My biggest concern in all of this is the FMS functions so having access to that on Ethos would've been nice.
You'll get plenty of opportunity to practice actually getting to push buttons on the FMS in systems, and the program they have has some canned ACARS messages so you can actually get atis, your clearance, and takeoff data.
09-20-2018, 03:16 PM
#128
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 46
I am waiting until late October for Indoc. Until then the Republic supplemental study guide is my bible. I memorized the panel locations and sometimes sit in the passenger seat of my car to practice flows and profiles. If I get really crazy I can find a YX flight and walk through the taxi, departure, arrival and approach.
Thing is, this only helps if the study guide is accurate. Are the flows and profiles in the study guide the same as the ones used in the sims/flights?
Since I don't have access to Comply yet, what publicly available publications or documents would you recommend?
Thing is, this only helps if the study guide is accurate. Are the flows and profiles in the study guide the same as the ones used in the sims/flights?
Since I don't have access to Comply yet, what publicly available publications or documents would you recommend?
09-20-2018, 04:44 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 121
I am waiting until late October for Indoc. Until then the Republic supplemental study guide is my bible. I memorized the panel locations and sometimes sit in the passenger seat of my car to practice flows and profiles. If I get really crazy I can find a YX flight and walk through the taxi, departure, arrival and approach.
Thing is, this only helps if the study guide is accurate. Are the flows and profiles in the study guide the same as the ones used in the sims/flights?
Since I don't have access to Comply yet, what publicly available publications or documents would you recommend?
Thing is, this only helps if the study guide is accurate. Are the flows and profiles in the study guide the same as the ones used in the sims/flights?
Since I don't have access to Comply yet, what publicly available publications or documents would you recommend?
If you have revision 1 of the study guide, that should be the most up to date.
09-28-2018, 01:24 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 764
I know it's everyone's best guess, but is there any reason to think these training delays won't continue? I'm in the 11/6 class, and was told to expect a delay.
Hopefully they don't get longer; it didn't seem like they did from the first August class that was announced as a delay through the 9/18 class.
Hopefully they don't get longer; it didn't seem like they did from the first August class that was announced as a delay through the 9/18 class.
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