Av8r75

Very true...many of the regionals are doing this. Nothing deceptive about it.

bnkangle

The simple fact of the matter is republic et al does this to recoupe some of their tax liability. If it was such a burdensome expense to them, why don’t they develop their own in house ATP-CTP? They certainly have the means to.

Someone please quote me the FAR that says an applicant must have completed an ATP-CTP course to be hired at a 121 carrier.

For that matter, show me the FAR that prohibits a 121 carrier from hiring a student pilot and training he or she from pre-solo to ATP,(insert type rating).


At my company, I was hired, did indoc, then ATP-CTP. I accrued seniority and got min guarantee while in ATP-CTP. I only paid tax on my regular pay.

Av8r75

Oh boy...unbelievable the world we live in today!!

Everybody wants something for nothing, or they want what someone else has (insert foreign country ab initio program here)!

The FARs state that no one may act as a PIC or SIC in a part 121 operation without an ATP...period. There is your FAR, no need to quote the actual FAR...look it up yourself. This has been beat to death throughout APC.

Since the FAA passed this new regulation, 121 carriers had to increase there hiring mins to ATP. The FAA also requires the ATP-CTP course in order to even take the written test. That being the case, the airlines technically can't hire you until you meet the requirements to obtain your ATP. ATP-CTP is one of those requirements, much like having the required experience is also a requirement.

It would be different if the airline sent you a 1099 for your type training, since that training is required by the airline on their equipment in order to operate. Ab inito programs are great, but whether they are implemented or not depends on supply and demand.

Could the airlines do all of this in house, possibly and who knows, maybe US airlines will in the future, but that is not the case right now. Due to union contracts and other issues, it is also very difficult to implement an in house ATP-CTP program that would be fair for everyone.

I myself need to do the ATP-CTP and am thankful that Republic along with many of the other regionals, will cover the costs, including lodging and travel I might add.

When did this profession become inundated with so many whiners instead of winners. I know pilots can complain like the best of em, but lets at least find something worth complaining about!

Bottom line, if you want everything handed to you on a silver platter, you are in the wrong profession, matter of fact you are on the wrong planet...work hard, have fun and don't worry about things you can do nothing about. I love aviation, even with all of its issues, which every industry has by the way and the airlines have come a long way since I flew for a regional 10 years ago.

TheWeatherman

Not true, I knew somebody who had their request of a class date moved back a couple weeks so he could attend a wedding. This was after he completed his CPT course.

You only have to pay back the full price of CPT if you fail training before the end of IOE and get terminated. Or if you choose to leave for somewhere else by a certain time period. These are standard across the industry.

Anybody out there have been able to successfully write this off as an educational cost?

Not sure why you created two threads about this.

Bonanzer

Man free stuff before you even hit the seniority list. How aweful.

Av8r75

Yeah man!! Horrendous treatment! It was so much better 10 years ago when an FO was making poverty wages and collecting food stamps. LOL

Times are much better these days, not perfect but much better!

bnkangle

I’m not debating nor do I much care about the merits of taxing an employee for a CTP class, but your misinformed idea that an airline can’t consider someone en employee untill they take the ATP written is flat out wrong.

Av8r75

I said I was done with this petty crap, but if you want to throw around insults, let me set the record straight and maybe clarify here real quick...

Type Ratings are different...while the FAR's do require type training above 12,500 (Been in aviation for a long time, but thanks for the TIP!!), this type of training is operator specific and a cost of doing business. You can't get a commercial pilot position without a commercial license and don't expect any US airline or 135 operator to pay for your commercial anytime soon. The ATP is also now an FAA requirement and yes airlines are providing plenty of assistance to pilots in order to get the pipeline filled up qualified folks. The difference is that the ATP is an experience requirement, not just equipment knowledge which is based on a specific operators needs.

I never said that airlines can't hire you, but they can't put you on the line until you meet those requirements. I think you knew what I meant!! By the way, it is not their prerogative how much or how little training they give..it is regulated by the FAA. All airline training programs are evaluated and regulated by the FAA.

What is their prerogative is what they will pay for and what they will not. Thats the real discussion here...you think its crap that they don't just pay for everything taxes included, so you can go work for them. Give me a break! You ever own or run a business? Well I have and it costs a lot of money to hire, train and develop employees. I have also worked for a regional airline 10 years ago when the pay was crap, you had no QOL, no flow, horrible work rules and maybe upgrade in 7-10 years.

So to be honest with you, I could care less about paying a little tax on training that I didn't have to pay for in full, not to mention cost of lodging, etc..

People always want more the more you give away. It never ceases to amaze me. Here is another tip to you and everyone else who thinks this is a legitimate gripe...if you think you can do it better, pony up the money and some investors, start your own airline and show everyone how its done! If not, then stop griping, enjoy your career as a pilot...enjoy the journey or do something else.

RANT OVER -

bnkangle

..filler..

Av8r75

Wowsers....let it go bro...

Sorry if I let this get out of hand...it just really bothers me when people make it sound like every airline is just out to get you, pull the wool over your eyes, etc...

There are more important things to concern ourselves with than this particular topic. Your idea about the bonus is a good idea by the way and someone already suggested to pay the taxes with a small amount of the bonus.

Call me an optimist, but things are much better these days than when I flew for the airlines, much better. This is not to say there is not room for improvement, there always is of course, but there are some things that people just pick at that seem very petty to me.

Been around this industry for over 25 years and the grass will always be greener somewhere else....in my experience, I have found it less stressful to not sweat the small stuff....just saying (Not giving you advice, just relaying my experience).

Take care.