Tpinks

Or what will actually happen is they come here for one year, then go to spirit after a year, make $57/hr year 1 there and then $104 year 2 there.

ORD170

The NC should have took the time to negotiate the entire CBA. Every article should have been looked at, and use real surveys. This happened way to fast, which means the company needs this done for their plans. It will most likely pass, but when the company does start an A scale, I doubt the current Eboard will be re-elected. I’m sure the company would love dealing with DG again .

Of course maybe I’m wrong and it will be unicorns and candy for all the pilots. Upgrade will drop and Republic will get 100 new airframes.

glassnpowder98

All of this coming from Mr. Moonride Pay himself- Dan Guerra (since we’re name dropping). The man who was out of touch with 76 percent of the pilot group that voted in current book. Listen Dan, I appreciate the time you spent getting current book to where it is, but you weren’t going to be happy until the place burned to the ground or you were making more than the legacy guys. Both of you have your storied pasts, but how about we stop the personal mud slinging and debate what’s actually in the LOA for the small percent left to vote?

CBreezy

That isn't how money works.

hopeless in SEA

That's exactly how money works, when you're the one in demand.

Why do you think that key management members made millions, while this pilot group fought for a raise after 8 years of continuation?

Because they had a plan.

The challenge of negotiating for any pilot group is exercising a plan when a large percentage of the group wants to reach into a bush, pull out a starved, emaciated, half-dead bird ... and then yell out ... VOTE YES! I GOT SOMETHING, HERE! Never asking why everybody on the other side of the table has a well-fed bird in each hand.

In the end, we all get what we deserve.

Ironically, by the time many pilots get off their high-horses and recognize the market for what it is, it will be the same sign that the market has peaked and turned. So if you find yourself wanting to vote YES, then you should probably avoid the stock market.

Because, again, this is exactly how money works. Economics 101.

hopeless in SEA

And just a side thought.

For all of you who would vote YES, do you believe that you need to accept this to keep the company competitive? Who do you think will take your flying if you don't?

Every other airline, no matter its size, is maxed out and hiring. There is not one pilot left to pick up the flying. Not one available seat to absorb the passengers. They all want you. And in the meantime, the mainline carriers continue to make billions, year after year.

Every. Single. One. Of. You. Will. Have. A. Flying. Job. For. Decades. No matter the airline. So ask for what you're worth. This is not a compromising kind of market. Again, Econ 101.

Do you truly need to help the company remain competitive? Please.

What are you competing for?!?! All the flying you can't staff?

There's billions to go around for those who reward their pilots and keep them. There are flight instructors, caravan pilots, and citation drivers laughing at this LOA. And Bedford is only one call away from renegotiating what is necessary.

It's time to reach for the Batphone, Bryan.

DirkDiggler

"As long as I have applications on my desk, I'm paying my pilots too much."
- Jonathan Ornstein, CEO, Mesa Airlines

Don't give up your only leverage. Or this will be the last contract you ever see.

CptGSXR

I don't like the LOA that RAH has offered either but this is getting ridiculous. Come on man, nobody is laughing at this offer. Especially flight instructors and caravan pilots. It wasn't long ago that certain airlines could fill classes for $16.80 an hour, and no pay in training, much less a sign on bonus of $10-$20k or even more now.

Yes, I can play the old man card and talk about how pilots actually had to PAY for their own training but that was too far back to compare to today's environment. But the Major's aren't hiring anywhere near what they claimed they would, and it kind of goes back to another old saying. It's a recession if your neighbor loses their job, it's a depression if you lose yours.

Hell, with 5k TT and 500 Turbine PIC, multiple types and no failures I can't even get a call back from Atlas, Spirit, ABX, Allegiant, Frontier, Alaska, Virgin (before buyout), or even Southern. Much less any Major, Southwest, UPS or FedEx.

Just take a step back and think about the situation, it doesn't help to go out and make such over-the-top statements. Maybe pilots just can't get hired anywhere else and want to be a 'lifer' at their regional. So what's wrong with thinking a bit more long term and getting a nice pay increase over 3 years? Ya, I agree that there should be immediate match to Endeavor (or whoever the current top pay is) and it seems like a lot of issues were tabled by giving you an LOA and not a full contract, but those are issues you can point out without all the hyperbole.

hopeless in SEA

I wouldn't have said that unless I knew people in those shoes who were, in fact, laughing. So it's not an over-the-top statement. And you alluded to exactly those people at the end, when you talked of those who are in-transit or desire to stay where they're at...for whatever reason.

But even they laugh at the idea that any pilot group 2,000 strong would settle for an EARLY yes vote to a mere LOA. At the very beginning of a 5-year peak in hiring activity and movement. Another issue that you pointed out. Sort of.

And yeah, I've got no issue with thinking long term. Hence the NO vote. I could play the old man card, too. And I remember the pay-for-training times just fine. Which is exactly why this LOA can't be voted for. You've got it backward. It's not "too far back to compare to this environment." It's too important to "not compare to this environment."

Think about it. Twenty to twenty-five years ago you might've had to pay a minimum of $10,000 and your own hotel, etc. Now some regionals pay you $40,000 and your hotel, etc. That's a $50,000+ difference. Heck, that's approaching the entire cost of learning to fly at a small 141 school (without a degree). Now if we are only beginning a 5-10 year period of rapid retirements right now, where do you think bonuses will go from there? up up UP.

That's why you can't vote yes to this. And you are exactly my example. You are in the wrong demographic. You have front-line, middle-aged experience with quality time, maybe. But you can't get hired. And you say that the majors aren't hiring near what they should've. So why is that? Could it be because they're flowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry that they picked up with 1250 hours TT last year? Because that is what you're seeing more of. A lot more of. Guys with your numbers aren't attractive anymore, coming off the street. So would you vote in an offer that makes you even less attractive? Would you vote in an offer that rewards the top guy with 20% and the bottom guy with UNLIMITED? Because giving more control over that UNLIMITED to the company is exactly what you'd be doing.

How many of you others want to look back someday and be in those shoes? Qualified, maybe even overqualified, but you also can't move on or get a call-back. Because you gave them permission to find someone younger, cheaper, and more teachable/inexperienced/naïve. And there is ALWAYS someone younger, cheaper, and more teachable/inexperienced/naïve when the training is damn near paid for.

Talk about shooting your future self in the nads.

I'm not saying that we can win every fight. But if we won't at least fight every fight, then we can't complain when no one calls us for an interview, or when we're bypassed entirely, by the jobs AND the money.

Generally speaking, not towards CptGSXR, when people complain about not being rewarded for time, experience, and work-invested, they have votes exactly like this one to thank. It isn't the pay, it's the language.

BSOuthisplace

When does voting close on this?