2018 Tentative Agreement
01-16-2018, 04:17 PM
#251
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 94
If in a merger the different pilot groups cannot agree on how to merge the pilot lists than this applies.
Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 C.A.B. at 45.
Section 13 mandated arbitration of disputes with employees that arose in this process or under any of the other provisions of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.2 Section 13 provides:
In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settled by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties
Although Midwest airlines was not in bankruptcy protection the arbitrator of the SLI ruled that our career expectations were low and we had no airplanes to bring to the merger. The reason we had no planes was that Republic pilots replaced Midwest routes with EMB 170 and 190 aircraft while the B717s were sent back to Boeing. Midwest airlines operated for a year with Republic pilots and Republic airplanes. That didn't seem to matter to the arbitrator. We basically were the black sheep of the merger. Midwest ALPA scope language was poor so let that be a lesson to you. Republic purchased Frontier and kept the airbuses operating so the Frontier pilots did much better in the SLI. There are many factors that go into "fair and equitable". If your carrier is healthy, you have good scope language and you bring airplanes to the table you should do ok in a merger or acquisition. Solely DOH is never done and McCaskill-Bond came out of the TWA staple by American to prevent that from happening again. As far as longevity for pay and benefits is concerned this was not addressed by the SLI so of course Republic management had no intent on giving us anything. Language means everything!!
Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 C.A.B. at 45.
Section 13 mandated arbitration of disputes with employees that arose in this process or under any of the other provisions of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.2 Section 13 provides:
In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settled by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties
Although Midwest airlines was not in bankruptcy protection the arbitrator of the SLI ruled that our career expectations were low and we had no airplanes to bring to the merger. The reason we had no planes was that Republic pilots replaced Midwest routes with EMB 170 and 190 aircraft while the B717s were sent back to Boeing. Midwest airlines operated for a year with Republic pilots and Republic airplanes. That didn't seem to matter to the arbitrator. We basically were the black sheep of the merger. Midwest ALPA scope language was poor so let that be a lesson to you. Republic purchased Frontier and kept the airbuses operating so the Frontier pilots did much better in the SLI. There are many factors that go into "fair and equitable". If your carrier is healthy, you have good scope language and you bring airplanes to the table you should do ok in a merger or acquisition. Solely DOH is never done and McCaskill-Bond came out of the TWA staple by American to prevent that from happening again. As far as longevity for pay and benefits is concerned this was not addressed by the SLI so of course Republic management had no intent on giving us anything. Language means everything!!
Last edited by ex9driver; 01-16-2018 at 04:36 PM.
01-16-2018, 06:24 PM
#252
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 16
Agreed about the “toonsters”, but it was more then that. The Lynx guys made out pretty well. The tier 3 republic guys got the shaft.
Most regionals regionals have relatively short upgrades. A three year FO at republic would most likely be junior to a 3 year pilot at TSA, because the TSA pilot would be in the left seat. Who knows though, because it really is up to the arbitrator and bond McCaskill
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Most regionals regionals have relatively short upgrades. A three year FO at republic would most likely be junior to a 3 year pilot at TSA, because the TSA pilot would be in the left seat. Who knows though, because it really is up to the arbitrator and bond McCaskill
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01-17-2018, 08:58 AM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: C172 Captain
Posts: 643
01-17-2018, 09:22 AM
#255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
If in a merger the different pilot groups cannot agree on how to merge the pilot lists than this applies.
Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 C.A.B. at 45.
Section 13 mandated arbitration of disputes with employees that arose in this process or under any of the other provisions of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.2 Section 13 provides:
In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settled by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties
Although Midwest airlines was not in bankruptcy protection the arbitrator of the SLI ruled that our career expectations were low and we had no airplanes to bring to the merger. The reason we had no planes was that Republic pilots replaced Midwest routes with EMB 170 and 190 aircraft while the B717s were sent back to Boeing. Midwest airlines operated for a year with Republic pilots and Republic airplanes. That didn't seem to matter to the arbitrator. We basically were the black sheep of the merger. Midwest ALPA scope language was poor so let that be a lesson to you. Republic purchased Frontier and kept the airbuses operating so the Frontier pilots did much better in the SLI. There are many factors that go into "fair and equitable". If your carrier is healthy, you have good scope language and you bring airplanes to the table you should do ok in a merger or acquisition. Solely DOH is never done and McCaskill-Bond came out of the TWA staple by American to prevent that from happening again. As far as longevity for pay and benefits is concerned this was not addressed by the SLI so of course Republic management had no intent on giving us anything. Language means everything!!
Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 C.A.B. at 45.
Section 13 mandated arbitration of disputes with employees that arose in this process or under any of the other provisions of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.2 Section 13 provides:
In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settled by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties
Although Midwest airlines was not in bankruptcy protection the arbitrator of the SLI ruled that our career expectations were low and we had no airplanes to bring to the merger. The reason we had no planes was that Republic pilots replaced Midwest routes with EMB 170 and 190 aircraft while the B717s were sent back to Boeing. Midwest airlines operated for a year with Republic pilots and Republic airplanes. That didn't seem to matter to the arbitrator. We basically were the black sheep of the merger. Midwest ALPA scope language was poor so let that be a lesson to you. Republic purchased Frontier and kept the airbuses operating so the Frontier pilots did much better in the SLI. There are many factors that go into "fair and equitable". If your carrier is healthy, you have good scope language and you bring airplanes to the table you should do ok in a merger or acquisition. Solely DOH is never done and McCaskill-Bond came out of the TWA staple by American to prevent that from happening again. As far as longevity for pay and benefits is concerned this was not addressed by the SLI so of course Republic management had no intent on giving us anything. Language means everything!!
Side note: I have heard from many former TWA pilots that claim that ALPA sold them down the river on the staple in hopes of getting AA to vote in ALPA. I am not sure if there is any truth to that.
01-17-2018, 09:36 AM
#256
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
Midwest was screwed with the replacement of aircraft however after that was done many of them openly said they would never come over and fly for a regional. So how they fared in an SLI did not mean much to most of them. No one was ever going to be allowed to bid for F9 vacancies, Bedford said that from the beginning and he followed through. Not to mention F9 probably should have never been involved in the whole thing given that SWA was actively attempting to acquire them mainly for A gates in DEN. My understanding is they wanted a staple and F9 pilots said no. Now I know a staple is bad, but if it comes down to joining SWA or a regional I think the choice is clear. It was also noted at the time that most of the F9 pilots had put in applications at SWA over the years. A large number of Lynx pilots were put ahead of RAH people that were on property before Lynx even existed. I was tier 3 RAH at the time and I walked away from RAH years ago in pure disgust of their dealings. It will be sad to watch it happen all over again, Bedford is still there and will likely repeat past practices.
Side note: I have heard from many former TWA pilots that claim that ALPA sold them down the river on the staple in hopes of getting AA to vote in ALPA. I am not sure if there is any truth to that.
Side note: I have heard from many former TWA pilots that claim that ALPA sold them down the river on the staple in hopes of getting AA to vote in ALPA. I am not sure if there is any truth to that.
01-17-2018, 10:06 AM
#257
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 689
After some debate it’s a no vote for me this morning. Can’t bring myself to vote for something that doesn’t further this industry. I think it’s going to be close honestly. In that case perhaps we’ll see a quick turn around in the negotiations but with something better to push it to a yes.
01-17-2018, 11:55 AM
#258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 328
An example of Bedford's past practices that many may not be aware of. He not only isolated F9 from the other three airlines in terms of bidding, but after the vote in which the IBT won the representation election most of the F9 pilots refused to pay dues. Not only did Bedford refuse to allow terminations which is what would normally happen, he gave them the blessing to keep FAPA up and running. That is how insidious the guy is. He single handedly circumvented the RAH CBA provisions and tainted every aspect of the process. All current RAH pilots need to watch their backs if there is another complex merger, he will pull out his bag of tricks again.
I don’t think that would happen if it were another regional. Also BB was trying to split the pilot group to his benefit. The whole frontier thing was a mess, and having a regional CEO running it made it worse. He wasn’t the only bad management we had prior to the 2015 CBA. They all sucked, but he was the person he pushed for that culture. When this gets voted down, he may be gone. If not it will probably take a year for a complete CBA. Maybe longer. This loa isn’t even 1 article....
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01-17-2018, 01:13 PM
#259
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 54
I don’t think that would happen if it were another regional. Also BB was trying to split the pilot group to his benefit. The whole frontier thing was a mess, and having a regional CEO running it made it worse. He wasn’t the only bad management we had prior to the 2015 CBA. They all sucked, but he was the person he pushed for that culture. When this gets voted down, he may be gone. If not it will probably take a year for a complete CBA. Maybe longer. This loa isn’t even 1 article....
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01-17-2018, 02:51 PM
#260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 328
I assume touches means 2-3 things in each of those articles. That’s what I count anyways, and a few are to the benefit of the company. Not much improvements to QOL. I don’t care I already voted no! I suspect it will pass, but it will not change the outcome.
Agreed Bedford will leave, and probably get a hefty bonus after he gets this LOA pushed through.
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