What regional has the best contract in 2017?
01-31-2017, 05:34 PM
#12
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
The thing is, it's not like it's really a short stop. 5 years probably, maybe longer. Long time to be miserable. It's a singularly unique opportunities for us in the industry right now looking at regionals. For the first time it's our market. Don't waste it people.
01-31-2017, 05:35 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Ummm, don't think so. Both are using 1000 hours to attain the $60K (false) promise. But guarantee is only 900. Best check that math.
Endeavor has the best first year pay at $57K, and it does not go down 2nd year like the AA WO pay does (at least until the end of 2018, under the current contract). The AA WOs comes out to about $54K or thereabouts, using min guarantee as the determinant.
Endeavor has the best first year pay at $57K, and it does not go down 2nd year like the AA WO pay does (at least until the end of 2018, under the current contract). The AA WOs comes out to about $54K or thereabouts, using min guarantee as the determinant.
It's an honest 60k for the first year at both, with retention bonuses after one year.
Replublic says they pay 60k, but their including per diem in their math,. Envoy doesn't. I'm not as familiar with Endeavour, I think they have a 23k annual retention bonus. The sweet think is that's for all pilots, so when you upgrade with the bonus you'll be making like 90k.
Replublic says they pay 60k, but their including per diem in their math,. Envoy doesn't. I'm not as familiar with Endeavour, I think they have a 23k annual retention bonus. The sweet think is that's for all pilots, so when you upgrade with the bonus you'll be making like 90k.
01-31-2017, 05:40 PM
#14
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Ummm, don't think so. Both are using 1000 hours to attain the $60K (false) promise. But guarantee is only 900. Best check that math.
Endeavor has the best first year pay at $57K, and it does not go down 2nd year like the AA WO pay does (at least until the end of 2018, under the current contract). The AA WOs comes out to about $54K or thereabouts, using min guarantee as the determinant.
Endeavor has the best first year pay at $57K, and it does not go down 2nd year like the AA WO pay does (at least until the end of 2018, under the current contract). The AA WOs comes out to about $54K or thereabouts, using min guarantee as the determinant.
Most FOs do better than min hours. Your gonna pick up some premium pay. Junior Manning pays 200% at envoy. The taxes on bonuses is what I think makes endeavor the worst deal. Just my opinion
01-31-2017, 05:42 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Most. Some. A few. Sometimes.
You cannot base a salary off of that. Raw numbers. EDV uses per diem to get to the $60K mark, and I don't even include that (though it is actually more feasible than 1,000 hours in a year, IMHO)
How is Endeavor's bonus any different than any other? The federal government sets the withholding rates on a bonus, not an airline. It's the same.
You cannot base a salary off of that. Raw numbers. EDV uses per diem to get to the $60K mark, and I don't even include that (though it is actually more feasible than 1,000 hours in a year, IMHO)
How is Endeavor's bonus any different than any other? The federal government sets the withholding rates on a bonus, not an airline. It's the same.
01-31-2017, 08:53 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Envoy does not use 1000 hours to calculate the first year pay. We use 75 hours a month (reserve guarantee), the $21,200.00 sign on bonus, and an average amount of per diem for the year($5,000) It's also using 0 overtime.
And it's not $60,000, it's $62,100 for first year pay.
And it's not $60,000, it's $62,100 for first year pay.
02-01-2017, 02:33 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 755
I think that people are forgetting the difference between block time and credit.
I can't speak for Envoy and PDT, but at PSA, it is really easy to credit well over 1000 hours a year while blocking far less. You can do it and get 14-15 days off a month. I would think that it is the same at the other AA WO.
Cancellation pay, training pay, vacation pay, deadhead pay, and more all are important parts of a contract. PSA gets paid "block or better" on a leg by leg basis. Lets say that we fly 3 legs today, and all 3 are blocked at 1 hour each. Lets then say that with ramp congestion, it takes us 90 minutes to complete the first leg, and then only 45 mins to complete the next two. We get paid 90 minutes for the first flight, and still get paid 60 mins and 60 mins for the next two. So, we blocked 3 hours, but get paid 3:30 for it. I would say that I personally overblock about 1/3 of my flights due to weather or congestion, and underblock the other 2/3. Not on purpose, but it happens. It is very common to start a 4 day trip worth 20 hours, end up flying only 18:30, but crediting 21:30.
As a line holder, SAP down to 65 hours, which is (3) 4 day trips. Then, once the SAP closes, pick up 4 more days of flying worth 20 hours. That will give you at least 90 hours of pay, and 14-15 days off a month. That is 1080 hours of credit. If that trip that you pick up each month goes critical, you get more pay.
Junior manning pays more. And during Christmas we had lots of FO's that were making 130+ hours, and they didn't even need to work Christmas eve or Christmas day. If your trip ended on December 23rd, you got 200% pay for the entire 4 day trip. If your trip started on December 26th, you also got 200% pay for the entire trip.
I can't speak for Envoy and PDT, but at PSA, it is really easy to credit well over 1000 hours a year while blocking far less. You can do it and get 14-15 days off a month. I would think that it is the same at the other AA WO.
Cancellation pay, training pay, vacation pay, deadhead pay, and more all are important parts of a contract. PSA gets paid "block or better" on a leg by leg basis. Lets say that we fly 3 legs today, and all 3 are blocked at 1 hour each. Lets then say that with ramp congestion, it takes us 90 minutes to complete the first leg, and then only 45 mins to complete the next two. We get paid 90 minutes for the first flight, and still get paid 60 mins and 60 mins for the next two. So, we blocked 3 hours, but get paid 3:30 for it. I would say that I personally overblock about 1/3 of my flights due to weather or congestion, and underblock the other 2/3. Not on purpose, but it happens. It is very common to start a 4 day trip worth 20 hours, end up flying only 18:30, but crediting 21:30.
As a line holder, SAP down to 65 hours, which is (3) 4 day trips. Then, once the SAP closes, pick up 4 more days of flying worth 20 hours. That will give you at least 90 hours of pay, and 14-15 days off a month. That is 1080 hours of credit. If that trip that you pick up each month goes critical, you get more pay.
Junior manning pays more. And during Christmas we had lots of FO's that were making 130+ hours, and they didn't even need to work Christmas eve or Christmas day. If your trip ended on December 23rd, you got 200% pay for the entire 4 day trip. If your trip started on December 26th, you also got 200% pay for the entire trip.
Last edited by PSA help; 02-01-2017 at 02:45 AM.
02-01-2017, 04:21 AM
#18
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Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 273
The best regionals in 2017 are the ones that have a very large bonus, growth, good healthcare and travel bennies. This is what your looking for in a regional. That would be the wholly owned regionals.
If everyone went to Endeavor, Envoy, Piedmont, PSA then all the other regionals would have to pony up the cash or go out of biz.
If everyone went to Endeavor, Envoy, Piedmont, PSA then all the other regionals would have to pony up the cash or go out of biz.
02-01-2017, 06:28 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: P-28
Posts: 151
Nothing really changes on what identifies the "best" regional for you. It will be unique to each individual. There might be some not so good ones, but even those might be a best fit for someone. The things to look at are always the same, and then try and get on with the airline that works best for you when you are available to get hired. It might change from one month to the next in today's environment. Base openings/closings, bonus changes, contract changes. The big things that most folks consider are:
-Base location: in general it is always better to live in base if you can. If you can't make sure you have as easy a commute as possible.
-First year pay: Things have become much better over the last year as the airlines have to compete to get guys in the door. There is much more that goes into pay than just what the hourly rate says. Bonuses, dead head pay rates, open time pay rate, per diem rates, and a whole bunch of other things will factor in.
-QOL: Everything plays into this, but there are some things that can be unique to an airline that makes it better or worse. Commuter policy, how they run/build the schedule, junior manning, and others.
-Time to upgrade: Having a chance to make captain and get paid more is always a good thing. Some airlines have a very senior pilot pool that makes it nearly impossible to put on Captain anytime soon. Others have a lot of mobility that improves your chances.
These are just a few things to consider. Which one/s are most important to you will help steer where you go. If money is your driving factor, then look at those airlines that are paying well right now (it could change next week though). If location/living in base is your thing, then look at those that best fit.
Aerocrewnews is a good spot to compare the airlines. They do their best to keep it current with respect to what the contracts say.
-Base location: in general it is always better to live in base if you can. If you can't make sure you have as easy a commute as possible.
-First year pay: Things have become much better over the last year as the airlines have to compete to get guys in the door. There is much more that goes into pay than just what the hourly rate says. Bonuses, dead head pay rates, open time pay rate, per diem rates, and a whole bunch of other things will factor in.
-QOL: Everything plays into this, but there are some things that can be unique to an airline that makes it better or worse. Commuter policy, how they run/build the schedule, junior manning, and others.
-Time to upgrade: Having a chance to make captain and get paid more is always a good thing. Some airlines have a very senior pilot pool that makes it nearly impossible to put on Captain anytime soon. Others have a lot of mobility that improves your chances.
These are just a few things to consider. Which one/s are most important to you will help steer where you go. If money is your driving factor, then look at those airlines that are paying well right now (it could change next week though). If location/living in base is your thing, then look at those that best fit.
Aerocrewnews is a good spot to compare the airlines. They do their best to keep it current with respect to what the contracts say.
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