Pinnacle
03-22-2006, 05:31 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
It is highly unlikely that there will ever be a pilot shortage at the majors. Regionals maybe, if their pay keeps going to sh*t and this microjet thing really takes off.
Originally Posted by rickair7777
The US is unique pilot-wise in that we have a vast general aviation infrastructure that can rapidly produce CFIs in 6-8 months who become entry-level airline pilots in 1-2 years. This system has always been able to fill the void (minimums vary between 500 and 10,000 depending on the demand). No other nation has GA the way we do (the Aussies have a fair bit owing to geography). Light airplane ownership and operation is regulated and taxed to the point of non-existence in most of the world.
Many foriegn nations (including China & India) send their military and/or civilian pilot trainees to the US to participate in our GA system. You simply cannot gain operational experience in most other places.
The concept of bringing in wholesale quantities of foriegn pilots is ludicrous...congress wouldn't go for it on security issues alone, not to mention union and public perception. And even if you did, since most of them would be trained here anyway, they would quickly become americanized...they won't work for $1.25/h for long when they realize that their mortgage payment is $2,500.00/month.
The only realistic foriegn threat is cabotage, where a foriegn vessel or aircraft can provide US domestic service. This is actually illegal, and not likely to change soon (again, security & political issues).
I can understand your willingness to take an opportunity to do something that you have always wanted to, but don't come in with the attitude that you're going get it by taking shortcuts and undercutting the livelihoods of people who have worked for it and have familys to feed. That sort of individual is generally despised in this industry...you won't be welcome.
Many foriegn nations (including China & India) send their military and/or civilian pilot trainees to the US to participate in our GA system. You simply cannot gain operational experience in most other places.
The concept of bringing in wholesale quantities of foriegn pilots is ludicrous...congress wouldn't go for it on security issues alone, not to mention union and public perception. And even if you did, since most of them would be trained here anyway, they would quickly become americanized...they won't work for $1.25/h for long when they realize that their mortgage payment is $2,500.00/month.
The only realistic foriegn threat is cabotage, where a foriegn vessel or aircraft can provide US domestic service. This is actually illegal, and not likely to change soon (again, security & political issues).
I can understand your willingness to take an opportunity to do something that you have always wanted to, but don't come in with the attitude that you're going get it by taking shortcuts and undercutting the livelihoods of people who have worked for it and have familys to feed. That sort of individual is generally despised in this industry...you won't be welcome.
But the pendulum will swing in the near future and suddenly there will be a great shortage of pilots. Then wages and benefits will go up again. Suddenly thousands of high school seniors will be looking at an airline pilot career as their focus for the future... lured by all the headlines about the huge shortages in the airline industry.
Why should airline pilots be immune from the realities of our market economy? You can hold on to your 20 days off a month and $200G a year while the entire ship sinks into the abyss of bankrupt entities. Or you can understand the realities of market economics and step into the real world of corporate America.
If all you career pilots think you have the game figured out... why don't you exercise an employee led buyout of your airline? Collectively you should be able to pull the money together to buy controlling interest in any company you want. Then give yourselves any income and benefit level you want! Also, make sure you only hire guys who deserve to work for your airline... maybe set your minimums at about 10,000 hours of PIC. Give everyone 8 to 10 day flight maximums each month and start your salaries at $150G for FO's with comprehensive benefits packages and fully-funded pension plans. Lord knows that you don't make enough money to fund your own retirement plans. That should work out great!
Or you could count your blessings and realize that you have one of the best jobs in America, work productively with management to weather the storms of economic cycles and survive. Has anyone ever approached management with a deferred compensation plan? Exchange a large portion of your income package in exchange for stock in the company. Become an airline owner rather than an airline employee. Align your interests with the interests of management. In fact, if you had sufficient stock, you could vote that stock as a group and hold management accountable.
03-22-2006, 05:50 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Right Seat 744
Posts: 946
Originally Posted by Preacher
RealityCheck...
I have been a stock broker and financial advisor for many years. I am not going into the airline industry to have a sweet job working 8 to 14 days a month and make $200G a year. I am going into the airline industry because I love flying... even as a passenger. It will be a great joy to sit on the nose of such an amazing machine and launch skyward day after day.
.
I have been a stock broker and financial advisor for many years. I am not going into the airline industry to have a sweet job working 8 to 14 days a month and make $200G a year. I am going into the airline industry because I love flying... even as a passenger. It will be a great joy to sit on the nose of such an amazing machine and launch skyward day after day.
.
Go buy your own airplane
03-22-2006, 06:13 AM
#85
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Originally Posted by Preacher
I am not going into the airline industry to have a sweet job working 8 to 14 days a month and make $200G a year. I am going into the airline industry because I love flying... even as a passenger. It will be a great joy to sit on the nose of such an amazing machine and launch skyward day after day.
Someone once said "Get a job doing what you truly love to do and you will never work a day in your life." I look forward to the day when I start getting paid to do what I have dreamed of my entire life.
I agree(d) with what you say above about 10 years ago. Today I just want day trips and be home with my wife and kids, sleep in my own bed and go to my hangar, pull out my 1957 V-tail and go fly on my terms. After being up and down in this business for as long as some of us have you realize that your quote should read "Get a job that pays you well so you can afford to do what you truly love."
Yes, I LOVE to fly as much as the next pilot, but in this "job" as an airline pilot only about 35% of my time at "work" is spent flying. The rest of the job is what wears you down over time. You are coming in with the right attitude, with life experience and a unique optimistic perspective. I really do hope that things fall into place for you. I am quite sure your background will give you the tools you need to manage your finacial situation better than many of us. I'll still be around in 5 years (god willing) so maybe, just maybe we'll sit on the pointy end together and talk face to face. I could use some retirement advice.
03-22-2006, 06:26 AM
#86
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by RealityCheck
I'll still be around in 5 years (god willing) so maybe, just maybe we'll sit on the pointy end together and talk face to face. I could use some retirement advice.
Maybe you could help steer me around the rocky shoals of this harbor as I get started...
03-22-2006, 08:29 AM
#88
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,107
Originally Posted by Preacher
Or you could count your blessings and realize that you have one of the best jobs in America, work productively with management to weather the storms of economic cycles and survive. Has anyone ever approached management with a deferred compensation plan? Exchange a large portion of your income package in exchange for stock in the company. Become an airline owner rather than an airline employee. Align your interests with the interests of management. In fact, if you had sufficient stock, you could vote that stock as a group and hold management accountable.
I have extensive real world corporate experience...if I had 20 days off a month at the airline that would be beat the real world hands down...but I really get 10 days off a month, and I'm gone the rest of the time...I lose another day to recovering from the inevitable redeye shift at the end of a trip, and another day or two commuting...now I have 7 days off. Most of which I spend doing chores and projects around the house that I couldn't do while gone. I have essentially zero time to pursue any of my own interests.
Many jobs which involve time away from home work 50% on / 50% off...this should really be the baseline standard in the airline industry.
I'm not into whining, I'm spending time here trying to educate and rally new and old pilots to arrest the downward slide. The AMA does a fabulous job of limiting production of new MDs & DOs to keep salaries high. If it's ethical to control the number of available cardiac surgeons, then it's certainly ethical for us to limit the supply of pilots. We do have mechanisms to do this...many PFT pilots are having difficulty moving on to the majors because of their background. The new folks need to be made aware that, rightly or wrongly, PFT are getting the blame for the industry slide...and that if they are doing this in hopes of getting a major airline job someday, they had better get a CFI and work their way up.
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