Pinnacle
03-20-2006, 10:54 AM
#62
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Mesa saves the money on the interview sim and lets the training department weed out non-hackers. Ground School and the oral are pretty cheap, so they eliminate a few folks there, then when you go to sim training you have to prove your sh*t in the first 3-4 sessions...if you have trouble early on in the sim, you're gone. Mesa training is not easy, it is still part of the interview! I do understand that SKW training is more thorough, but not hard compared to Mesa (this is from folks who have done both recently). But SKW seems to do their weed out during the interview stages, and focus on training new hires.
Suppose you are not current. If you go to an airline that does most of the elimination at the interview (read sim check involved) then you obviously don't pass the interview. From that point on, nobody knows or cares to know why you didn't get hired. You, on the other hand, learn your lesson and try again.
If however the culture is to weed out people mostly during training then washing out of training can be damaging to your career.
03-20-2006, 12:09 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: CR7 Capt
Posts: 1,621
Originally Posted by sgrd0q
Which is to say airlines like MESA can do some damage to your career.
Suppose you are not current. If you go to an airline that does most of the elimination at the interview (read sim check involved) then you obviously don't pass the interview. From that point on, nobody knows or cares to know why you didn't get hired. You, on the other hand, learn your lesson and try again.
If however the culture is to weed out people mostly during training then washing out of training can be damaging to your career.
Suppose you are not current. If you go to an airline that does most of the elimination at the interview (read sim check involved) then you obviously don't pass the interview. From that point on, nobody knows or cares to know why you didn't get hired. You, on the other hand, learn your lesson and try again.
If however the culture is to weed out people mostly during training then washing out of training can be damaging to your career.
Ohhh great I just applied to MESA
03-21-2006, 03:53 AM
#64
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by ERJ135
Ohhh great I just applied to MESA
03-21-2006, 07:02 AM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hello All...
This is my first comment on this site... in fact, I haven't even taken my very first lesson to become a pilot yet. I always dreamed of flying jets for the military, but my eyesight wasn't up to par. I thought that would be the only way I could ever be a jet pilot. Life started, marriage, children (4) and a career... but, I never stopped looking into the sky every time a jet flew by, or any other plane for that matter. Now my children are in high school, the oldest is on his way to college and I am considering a career change.
I have been reading these forums for a couple of weeks now to get an idea of what I am in for in this industry. I plan to attend ATP for all of my training from PVT all the way through to CFII and CRJ training. No... Mommy and Daddy won't be paying my way, I will. This forum thread has been very interesting to me and I have a question for any of you military jet jockey's out there.
Don't the Air Force and the Navy and the Marines all take very young pilots with very little experience and put them behind the controls of $50 to $180 million dollar high performance jets? In fact, not only do they do that, but many of those jets don't even have another pilot on board to help when things get a little crazy.
Granted, they don't have 40 to 70 lives on board with them, but the point remains.
Furthermore, I have read many posts around this site where people have complained about their responsibilities as a FO... basically that they are mindless "go-fors" for their CA's. Do this, do that, don't do this or that...
It is up to the FAA to set the limits on what is acceptable levels of experience for a commercial airline pilot holding an ATP license. And it is up to the management and the investors who own airlines to make sure they don't expose themselves to lawsuits that could bankrupt the company by employing grossly underqualified pilots.
This is a market economy in America... it is what has made our country great. The laws of supply and demand are still alive and well. It is not young pilots that are driving wages down in the airline industry... it is the passengers who shop the internet for the least expensive way to get from point A to point B. They don't care if they are flying with 39 other people on a plane or with 239 other people... They don't care if the airline serves peanuts or caviar. They simply want the least expensive way to travel.
Just look at Wal-Mart. They broke all the "rules" of general stores and have changed the entire industry forever. Ask yourself this question... Do you shop at Wal-Mart or at the local general store that has a fraction of the selection and at twice the price level just so the owner of that store can continue to take home a sizable income?
As for me, I will be expediting my training as quickly as I can. I will teach and I will apply for positions. I hope to get hired by a regional as quickly as I can and I will soak up as much experience as I can as quickly as I can. We all know that the only time that matters is PIC time when it comes to getting a job where life is more enjoyable and more lucrative. I want that PIC time wherever I am able to earn it.
This is my first comment on this site... in fact, I haven't even taken my very first lesson to become a pilot yet. I always dreamed of flying jets for the military, but my eyesight wasn't up to par. I thought that would be the only way I could ever be a jet pilot. Life started, marriage, children (4) and a career... but, I never stopped looking into the sky every time a jet flew by, or any other plane for that matter. Now my children are in high school, the oldest is on his way to college and I am considering a career change.
I have been reading these forums for a couple of weeks now to get an idea of what I am in for in this industry. I plan to attend ATP for all of my training from PVT all the way through to CFII and CRJ training. No... Mommy and Daddy won't be paying my way, I will. This forum thread has been very interesting to me and I have a question for any of you military jet jockey's out there.
Don't the Air Force and the Navy and the Marines all take very young pilots with very little experience and put them behind the controls of $50 to $180 million dollar high performance jets? In fact, not only do they do that, but many of those jets don't even have another pilot on board to help when things get a little crazy.
Granted, they don't have 40 to 70 lives on board with them, but the point remains.
Furthermore, I have read many posts around this site where people have complained about their responsibilities as a FO... basically that they are mindless "go-fors" for their CA's. Do this, do that, don't do this or that...
It is up to the FAA to set the limits on what is acceptable levels of experience for a commercial airline pilot holding an ATP license. And it is up to the management and the investors who own airlines to make sure they don't expose themselves to lawsuits that could bankrupt the company by employing grossly underqualified pilots.
This is a market economy in America... it is what has made our country great. The laws of supply and demand are still alive and well. It is not young pilots that are driving wages down in the airline industry... it is the passengers who shop the internet for the least expensive way to get from point A to point B. They don't care if they are flying with 39 other people on a plane or with 239 other people... They don't care if the airline serves peanuts or caviar. They simply want the least expensive way to travel.
Just look at Wal-Mart. They broke all the "rules" of general stores and have changed the entire industry forever. Ask yourself this question... Do you shop at Wal-Mart or at the local general store that has a fraction of the selection and at twice the price level just so the owner of that store can continue to take home a sizable income?
As for me, I will be expediting my training as quickly as I can. I will teach and I will apply for positions. I hope to get hired by a regional as quickly as I can and I will soak up as much experience as I can as quickly as I can. We all know that the only time that matters is PIC time when it comes to getting a job where life is more enjoyable and more lucrative. I want that PIC time wherever I am able to earn it.
03-21-2006, 08:12 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Right Seat 744
Posts: 946
[QUOTE=Preacher]Hello All...
"This is my first comment on this site... in fact, I haven't even taken my very first lesson to become a pilot yet. I always dreamed of flying jets for the military, but my eyesight wasn't up to par. I thought that would be the only way I could ever be a jet pilot. Life started, marriage, children (4) and a career... but, I never stopped looking into the sky every time a jet flew by, or any other plane for that matter. Now my children are in high school, the oldest is on his way to college and I am considering a career change."
Great...Another PFT who wants a $20k a year job and will have spent
$80K....with college looming for his kids.....what a country.....Go read "Flying The Line" and "Flying The Line Vol II", both by George E. Hopkins.
PS - I wonder how he'd do AFTER a ground stop at EWR or LGA when things get "fun"?
"This is my first comment on this site... in fact, I haven't even taken my very first lesson to become a pilot yet. I always dreamed of flying jets for the military, but my eyesight wasn't up to par. I thought that would be the only way I could ever be a jet pilot. Life started, marriage, children (4) and a career... but, I never stopped looking into the sky every time a jet flew by, or any other plane for that matter. Now my children are in high school, the oldest is on his way to college and I am considering a career change."
Great...Another PFT who wants a $20k a year job and will have spent
$80K....with college looming for his kids.....what a country.....Go read "Flying The Line" and "Flying The Line Vol II", both by George E. Hopkins.
PS - I wonder how he'd do AFTER a ground stop at EWR or LGA when things get "fun"?
Last edited by crewdawg52; 03-22-2006 at 05:45 AM.
03-21-2006, 08:26 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"Don't the Air Force and the Navy and the Marines all take very young pilots with very little experience and put them behind the controls of..."
The arugument has been made before. The counter is that the military has much higher standards in screening and training pilots than Mesa PDP or even Flight Safety direct track. At ATP, you'll have a chance to get your CFI ratings and instruct for a time before you move on to the regionals. This is valuable experience that sets you apart from the 250 hour ab initio guy.
I just don't think you can compare a 250 hour military guy to a 250 hour ab initio civillian guy. Two different leagues.
The arugument has been made before. The counter is that the military has much higher standards in screening and training pilots than Mesa PDP or even Flight Safety direct track. At ATP, you'll have a chance to get your CFI ratings and instruct for a time before you move on to the regionals. This is valuable experience that sets you apart from the 250 hour ab initio guy.
I just don't think you can compare a 250 hour military guy to a 250 hour ab initio civillian guy. Two different leagues.
03-21-2006, 08:52 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Right Seat 744
Posts: 946
Totally agree with de727ups. In the military (USAF), you are flying in wingtip formation, in jets, solo, after 4 months of walking through the front gate of pilot training. I highly doubt that anyone going to ATP will be doing that in 4 months of starting pilot
training..... At ATP, a monkey can learn to fly a plane. All you need is time and $.
training..... At ATP, a monkey can learn to fly a plane. All you need is time and $.
Last edited by crewdawg52; 03-21-2006 at 08:55 AM.
03-21-2006, 09:23 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by Preacher
This is my first comment on this site... in fact, I haven't even taken my very first lesson to become a pilot yet.
03-21-2006, 12:15 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 2,277
Preacher
Good for you. I have done the same all my life as well. The only difference is that I have one son; a 22 month old. I hope to start my training soon, too. I may have a few more hurdles to get over than you so as to getting hired by the regionals or any airline for that matter. (NO COMMENTS sgrd0q)--LOL!
However, as the ole saying goes, "If you wanna walk on the water, you've gotta step outta the boat."
However, as the ole saying goes, "If you wanna walk on the water, you've gotta step outta the boat."
Last edited by atpwannabe; 03-21-2006 at 12:20 PM.
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