crewdawg52

Gee Whiz.......560 total hours and 50 multi. Be still my heart! How many of those are turbine?
It's no wonder myself or the family will ever non-rev on a Pinnacle.

I appologize to the vast majority of Pinnacle pilots out there, but 50 hours multi ( all in props I'll bet) is not enough time to let someone control my life in turbines.

Space Monkey

Full well agree with that one.... I took me till the time I was 22.5 years old to get my first regional job (Mesa / AMW) I had 1500tt, over 200 multi, CFI and 135 experience and I still had to get a friend who was a CRJ CA at Mesa to go to PHX and physically pull mystuff out of the pile before I could even get an interview call.... Needless to say academy guys and low timers get no respect or pitty out of me... go CFI and fly 135 (or 134 and a half as the case may be) for a while and at least try to earn your job! Other than that quit whining you industry down dragging scum bags!

Willi364

You make it sound as though they are jumping directly into the left seat. As if the academy guys and girls skip training and all other requirements? I would like to think those who don't fit are identified sooner or later.

JMT21

Your telling me that you would have turned down the opportunity to sit right seat at a regional with 560/50? How can you say that some kid is dragging the industry down by simply accepting a job? I'll buy into the PFT guys not doing the industry any favors, but please, these guys were neither PFT or academy grads. I can also assure you that these guys all had their CFI tickets and had instructed to get about half that time (250/25).

jmack

WOW, I will avoid Pinnacle like my life depended on it, cause it does. Don't need 500 tt guys cuttin their teeth in a RJ with me in the back. The fact that they aren't the only pilots up front is of no comfort, its a 2 person crew only as strong as the weakest pilot. Sad.

Bring on NEWCO

Space Monkey

Oh Im soooooo sorry for my previous remark... why what ever was I thinking I mean wow 250 hours and 25 of multi is a huge amount of instruction given I mean that must make you like qualified to be like the chief instructor of your 141 school or something. (and just in case you didnt notice Im being sarcastic) If you look at Nwairlink.com it says 1400 tt and 200 multi for everybody else..... And what 250 hours of dual given is what perhaps 5 pvt/comm/instr students and 1 multi student? sorry but thats not a whole lot of experience. Now lets look at this from a managment perspective (oh if I were the CEO for a day....) At this point I'm saying to myself I have these low time pilots who by all right full means should still be in the right seat of a 172 like all their other peirs telling people to watch their alt./ hdg. and begging not to be be smacked in... instead they have a nice plush right seat in my jet. So from my point of view since they are not a qualified as everyone else they are not yet professionals. SO they should just be greatful to have the right seat in my jet and why should I have to pay them? I guess I shouldn't and since I can discriminate amongst low and high time FO's I guess I will have to pay all FO's the same so I guess that means a CRAP pay scale for ALL FO's. WOW what a benefit for me..... guess I'll get that bonus this year.....

Food for thought... As for me Im glad I got atleast some real experience it has served me well.... and I hope others will either come to their senses and do the same or there will be a hard set of hiring minimums put into effect that will force them to do so........

JMT21

Mr. Monkey, don't be sorry at all. I am not naive enough to think 250/25 hours is a whole lot of instruction. To be fair, Pinnacle came here and chose to hire those individguals; UND didn't pay them to make a trip out here, nor were they obligated too under any contracts or anything like that.

I'm glad your experiances have served you well, but if you really think that others will instruct (or whatever they are doing to build time) until they feel they have enough experiance to move on to the regionals, your only fooling yourself. Most are just there to build the minimum amount of time they need to move on (If Pinnacle wouldn't have picked up those few instructors, they would still be here sitting right seat in their little Warrior). It really falls on the airlines to hire the most experianced pilots out there, which was the point I intended to make-you can't blame the kid for taking the job offered to him, or turn him the scapegoat for your low pay. You never did answer my question - are your telling me that you would have turned down the opportunity to sit right seat at a regional with 560/50?

cowboypilot

I posted this over in the majors forum but I think it is relevent here, and to answer your question JMT21-

I went to a four year college got my degree and my ratings and now I'm a lowly flight instructor putting in my dues, and while at times the jobs does suck I do relize I'm learning so much more than I could have ever have otherwise, and a long the way realizing how much I didn't know.

I can't believe people going through these direct to airline courses could feel like they should really have those jobs. I would feel guilty having peoples lives in my hands (at the helm of a RJ) and I have twice the hours of the people have coming out of these programs. I could probably get a regional job this summer but I want to instruct a year as a CFII to really get good at instrument flying.

How in the world could someone who has 50 hrs of instrument time have the knowledge to fly for an airline? I would not be able to look passengers in the eyes believing that I am qualified enough to have their lives in my hands.

I would also say this if you have enough money way of doing things now is really bringing down the whole pilot profession, it is no longer a profession it is more like being a welder, you go to a tech school for a couple of years get your license and a way you go. Not to mention its negative impacts on pay.


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"You make it sound as though they are jumping directly into the left seat. As if the academy guys and girls skip training and all other requirements? I would like to think those who don't fit are identified sooner or later"

Mesa doesn't even require a sim check on the interview for crying out loud, maybe its because they know their academy graduates can't pass it?

Punkpilot48

Better Instrument experience would be to go out and fly yourself into the clouds. Its not quite the same as an instructor. You do become more aware of the theroy type stuff but the practice is different. Think about it which is goin to be harder flying instruments of sitting there watching someone fly instruments. Yeah you gotta make sure you know whats goin on but its a lot different just sitting there.

Oh and the first thing youll lose as a double I is your scan. Woo I am payin the price for that now.

I'm not trying to argue with you that these low time guys are the answer or anything this is just some advice for flying since you said you wanted more instrument time.

JMT21

To add on to what punkpilot said, if you have your CFII, you should already be really good at flying the instruments. I got nothing against paying your dues, as I already said, if Pinnacle hadn't chose hire those few, they would still be here doing just that.

Why shouldn't they really feel like they should have those jobs? They passed the interview, sim ride, written exam, and ATP written just like everyone else. They made it through 2 months of training like everyone else, will sit in reserve like everyone else, and will eventually hold the right seat like everyone else. They may be flying the aircraft, but the captain has the last word.

Which programs would these be that you speak of?

Your last sentence is almost incomprehensible, but I remember reading the thing about the welder when Skyhigh originally wrote it. I guess if the pilot or cowboy thing dosen't work out for, you can always fall back on that. I don't know what the hell you were trying to get across with the last part, as I already said: I buy into the PFT guys hurting the industry. Or is that just your signature?

This is how it goes: You hear Pinnacle is coming to town, you realize you have low time but figure what the the hell, I'll apply anyway, if they interview me it will be a great experience if not, not a big deal. Turns out they want to interview you, you pass the written, sim ride is no sweat, and the interview went well, great experience all around. Then you get a call several days later. They want you to come fly for them, in fact they tell you you'll be able to have msp as a base (you were born and raised there, and the girlfriend lives there too). You honestly would tell them thanks, but no thanks I don't feel I'm qualified enough? Give me a few hundred more hours in my 172 watching my student shoot approaches, then I'll be right over? Yes or no? If you turn down their offer, they shrug their shoulders and offer the job to the next low time guy on the list.

I'm really happy about you saving the industry and all, but it's those airline pilots who ***** and moan about low timers getting hired that have the ability change things. Tell management or the Union or whoever that your tired of sitting next to guys whose multi is still wet in their log books. Tell them to raise or stick firm to their mins. If I was offered a regional job at 560/50 I'd take it and run.