Originally Posted by Hacker15e

I never understood the "golden handcuffs" argument from regional lifers.

Plenty of guys in their 40s are starting over at the bottom of the majors, with all of the same family, kids, money, and quality of life challenges mentioned above.

Our families are more important than our careers, too...and that "marginal benefit" obtained by the "upheaval" of moving on to a major airline is to the tune of about $3+ million of additional income (depending on where you go to work, of course) over the course of the rest of the flying career. In addition, once you get past those initial painful years of reserve, commuting, etc, the schedules and work rules are substantially better at the majors than at the regionals. That translates to more time at home for the next couple decades -- if you so choose to even work that long, since smart financial planning will allow you to retire before 65 (or 67!).

Yes, the upheaval is a pain in the dong, but if you really care about your family life then the financial and schedule reward they will pretty quickly have after you've made the jump to the majors is a worthy payoff.

Anyone who will take the time to sit down and run the numbers can see this if they want to. Unfortunately, I think so many lifers can't get past the very temporary pain of bottom-of-the-list reserve and commutes to crappy domiciles. I get it that some folks have a schedule and money that they are "content" with, and have heard all of the "there are things more important than money" arguments, but ultimately the benefit on the other side of the pain is just too good to pass up, IMHO.

Originally Posted by RemoveB4Flight

Not sure I understand. Are you insinuating there is no pilot shortage? There used to be a lot of not believers but the way things have been in the last year (regionals falling over each other begging for pilots to work for them when they hit 1500 hours and constantly one upping each other on compensation to try to attract new hires) I honestly didn't think there were too many left that would try to say there isn't a shortage of pilots.
I see in another of your posts that you are approaching 1500 hours this January and have "regionals knocking at your door". Not sure if you're aware, but that was not typical for regionals until lately when they started having difficulty finding applicants.

Originally Posted by TalkTurkey

I think the AAs are going to have the new-hire market cornered with those bonuses, upped pay and flow.

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

I never understood the "golden handcuffs" argument from regional lifers.

Plenty of guys in their 40s are starting over at the bottom of the majors, with all of the same family, kids, money, and quality of life challenges mentioned above.

Our families are more important than our careers, too...and that "marginal benefit" obtained by the "upheaval" of moving on to a major airline is to the tune of about $3+ million of additional income (depending on where you go to work, of course) over the course of the rest of the flying career. In addition, once you get past those initial painful years of reserve, commuting, etc, the schedules and work rules are substantially better at the majors than at the regionals. That translates to more time at home for the next couple decades -- if you so choose to even work that long, since smart financial planning will allow you to retire before 65 (or 67!).

Yes, the upheaval is a pain in the dong, but if you really care about your family life then the financial and schedule reward they will pretty quickly have after you've made the jump to the majors is a worthy payoff.

Anyone who will take the time to sit down and run the numbers can see this if they want to. Unfortunately, I think so many lifers can't get past the very temporary pain of bottom-of-the-list reserve and commutes to crappy domiciles. I get it that some folks have a schedule and money that they are "content" with, and have heard all of the "there are things more important than money" arguments, but ultimately the benefit on the other side of the pain is just too good to pass up, IMHO.

Originally Posted by gloopy

I agree with all that. I think some regional "lifers" WAY underemphasize this. Maybe back when first year pay was in the 20's and 30's (not that long ago) you could see doing that. But now its in the 80's with ultra fast wide body and even upgrade opportunities, etc that unless you're a triple dipping check airman contract ninja it rarely, if ever, makes long term sense not to make the move. Not to mention that if you truly "can't afford" to go all the way down to the 80's for one year in exchange for likely a million or more in career earnings, you're not managing your finances very well.

Originally Posted by unity2010

eny received over 1000 apps in the last 2 weeks..

Originally Posted by MrSkywest

The term "shortage" is a political term, not an economic term. In a free market when the demand rises the compensation should rise until the supply meets the demand. The airlines have been holding down the pay and talking "shortage" when the problem is lack of pay. I have a lot of experienced friends who are not going to work for 35k a year. Along with commute or other costs it is not worth it for a lot of guys who don't have 30 years left to fly. Show me the money and there will be a lot of pilots who will come fly.

Originally Posted by RemoveB4Flight

You can call it whatever you would like. Like you say it's a term. The word shortage simple means we don't have enough as we need.
If I don't have enough money to pay my rent, I will have insufficient funds. That does not mean that there aren't funds in someone else's possession or elsewhere in the world or that I can't make changes that would increase my funds, but as far as I would be concerned I would currently have a shortage of funds.
Now you argue that they exist they just are actively flying. Great. But many of the ones you speak of have zero interest in ever returning to the 121 world or even aviation at all no matter what the pay. Some have been burned too many times and are now content with their career in other fields and being home every night with their families. Also some of those guys likely can't come back to the 121 world even if they would like to. Some likely medically and some at an age that wouldn't make any sense to restart from the bottom.
I agree there has for many years been (and still is) a pay shortage. But you're lying to yourself if you don't think the pay shortage created a pilot shortage. It caused people to go into other industries with no intention to return and stunted new pilot interest with low pay and high cost of training.

Originally Posted by Pedro4President

It's pretty simple, pay people more money and they will show up. Currently we do not have a pilot shortage. Envoy went from hiring 4-5 pilots per month to 50 pilots per month because of the 175 and higher pay.

So if a regional has a pilot shortage then it is localized to that specific company.