Droopy

I think what I'm hearing him say is after you proactively got two alternates on your forecast VFR day, and after your destination and both alternates failed, instead of using that last 45 minutes of fuel to find a piece of concrete to land on, you should find the nearest fire station and plant the airplane in front of it...

GoJetNoMore

With a previous airline I was flying to ORD with no alternate and good weather. Big thunderstorms popped up over ORD and it closed. Airline wanted me to hold to last possible second before diverting. I could see me getting vectors and then having the airport close again and not really having any options. I diverted, got gas and went to ORD.

Chief Pilot called me from STL and said I should have held till the last minute then tried to get in and that I did not need alternate fuel because the forecast was fine when I left. But, after 28 years of not getting myself into bad situations I don't think that would have been a good time to start. That's for you brave guys. We landed, refueled and got to ORD long before all those planes that held, diverted, refueled, and then went to ORD.

Dhood84

Perfect use of authority right here. Fly the plane first, answer questions later. I guess that's a lot for some guys now a days.

DH

JohnnyDingus

Or its what would the guys on APC do???????

jcountry

I can see people getting into that position-especially in XNA. Drake is the only place close....

With the fuel programs we have these days, this sort of thing will become more common.

Folks ever have to divert on a clear weather day because some plane geared up and ruined the only runway you can use?

I have-3 times.

And yes, as other have said-go have a frosty mug of ****!

Sliceback

Moonship - "One of the most dangerous condition in flight is a pilot who won't make the tough decision, in this case to get on the ground safely when the opportunity presents, because they are so paranoid about having to explain their use of emergency authority!"


Bingo. International ops w/b. Destination wx bad, diverted. Pretty long divert. Enroute to the alternate hat wx got worse. Tried an approach and missed. Out of options. Auto landed, below minimums, on a non-auto land runway.

Sometimes you have to do whatever it takes. Oh wait, that's what the law says -

14 CFR 91.3 - Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.

§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 2120-0005)

That's why AA's CP said - "if you've got problems, but call me from the ground, you've done ok." Running out of gas because you're afraid to make tough decisions is dumb.

hockeypilot44

There were obviously numerous mistakes made to get to this point. The pilots avoided catastrophe by making the difficult decision to land where they did. No one was hurt. Learn from it. Dispatch needs to learn from it also as he/she is more to blame than the pilots.

Sliceback

Obviously numerous mistakes? We don't have access to the information you do so could you list what the mistakes were?

Bellanca

Exactly! perfect wx Saturday morning, a baron geared up coming to rest at the intersection of both runways! That's why we carry a 45 min reserve even with no traffic and weather.

I also had the misfortune of having a pretty bad mechanical problem and then completely unforecast weather pop up while dealing with the mechanical. It's obvious that some of these armchair quarterbacks have never been in a situation where plan A, B, C, etc fails and you're quickly running out of options needing to make a decision immediately. Sometimes no amount of planning can prepare you for when mother nature and/or mechanicals wants to throw a bunch of curve balls at once.

When I flew corporate we ALWAYS had access to xm weather. It was great being able to zoom out the map and see if stuff were popping up eroute from 1000 miles out. Also having easy access to tafs/metars/pireps/winds/sigmets graphically depicted on the screen. It amazes me how in the dark I feel at times in airline flying, with crappy radar and FMSs with limited capabilities. We have a dispatcher that in theory should be our extra eyes and ears, but not all of them seem to be very proactive about letting us know when trouble lies ahead. Its just not the same as being able to access the information we had available at fingertips in the corporate jet.

None

All these pilots on here are Gods IMO. Ain't been in that situation myself but I can honestly say it was not because I did not try lol.

I guess I am one of the few inperfect pilots on here.