Skyooopilot791

Having done a mix of both GA and 121 fly, if what I read on here is correct. Those pilots did a great job with what they had. Everyone has their own opinions but that opinion does always mean you right.

But the main point that everyone has made, they got it on the ground safe and they can learn from the experience and get to keep flying.

NeverHome

Just my .02c

We all get dispatched to and from airports with TS and other wx. Thats apart of being an airline pilot. If the wx is really bad then you can delay, but that is not often nessecary.

Where I applaud: they made a decision to divert. How many times have you continued in to an airport only to later realize that it was increadibly stupid to do so? Making that kind of decision is tough. Even if the decision is made for you than you Must realize that one of your safety nets is gone. Time to figure out a new safety net.

Where I monday night quarterback: WS is serious, but when fuel is a concern and landing soon is critical, the CA may decide to overide procedure. That is within his rights, though not a decision to make lightly.

Finally, when the chips are down, do what you must. I do applaud the decision to pick a decent piece of pavement and land. How many of us would have kept tryin until there were Zero options? Easy to judge but I have seen pilots do some increadibly stupid stuff when under pressure.

As been stated, everybody lived, no injuries, no bent metal. Id hire them. After all, they made good decisions and learned some great lessons

HighFlight

Fixxored for ya. No extra charge!

gojo

I'm not trying to sound like I'm God!!! I've made plenty of mistakes myself. What I have a problem with is the amount of cowboys that have responded here with the business as usual attitude. And some of the statements show glaring inexperience. I've said many times that I learn from significant emotional events, and I was close to having to do exactly what happened here. As the saying goes, once bitten twice shy. Now if I have a hint of bad weather developing along my route or at the destination, I first make sure I have a good alternate. And second, I keep checking on the conditions of both in route. If it looks like I need a more suitable alternate, I'll work it out with dispatch. In either case, I'll calculate decision or bingo fuel (with at least 45 minutes of reserve). When I hit that point, I'm out of there. I believe at erring on the side of safety. This whole event would've never been made public if the diversion was to an approved alternate. I'm glad everyone's safe.

echelon

Literally nobody here thinks this is "business as usual." What?? Almost everyone that's posted has mentioned what a tough spot it was.

So... did you just say that you were close to having to do exactly what this crew had to do and that therefore it could've just as easily been you? Or anyone? That's what it sounded like, but that of course conflicts with the fact that you are still arguing that this is somehow the crew's fault and that they "put themselves in this position" or that they're worthy of your criticism.

What is it that you think THEY were doing, sitting there playing with themselves? They added an alternate, they got a second alternate enroute, etc. You aren't special. It's great that we all know now how your decision making process would have worked, but what you've described is the textbook answer that all of us would be following anyway and I can't figure out why you think it's safe to assume that this particular crew was doing something other than what you wrote, especially given the fact that the facts say otherwise.

minimwage4

He's a delta pilot.

minimwage4

Great post. It's actually amazing you don't hear more about these events happening. I know at my airline we got a memo a bit ago reminding us we have to declare an emergency if we land at any airport outside our opspecs so it does happen.

I'm still amazed at how very little weather planning we do especially with those 20 minute turns we are expected to do, there's barely any time to read the TAFs let alone do a weather analasys. Someone mentioned prog charts! Yea right that's why we have dispatch. Albeit most of them are new, so are many of the regional pilots. I remember many times when I was an FO where the CA did 0 weather planning in face of weather. We have to be vigilant, take one flight at a time, never trust your dispatch. They will send you into weather, and with no alternates. Happened plenty of times in my experience.

CaptPappy

For those who would like some data -

TAF for KXNA -

KXNA 121120Z 1212/1312 00000KT P6SM SKC
FM121600 18006KT P6SM SCT040
FM122000 18003KT P6SM VCTS BKN040CB BKN250 PROB30 1221/1303 3SM -TSRA BR
BKN030CB
FM130300 00000KT P6SM BKN250

Here is an amended TAF -

KXNA 121621Z 1216/1312 18006KT P6SM SCT025 BKN040
TEMPO 1216/1220 VRB15G25KT 3SM -TSRA BKN025CB
FM122000 18003KT P6SM VCTS BKN040CB BKN250
FM130300 00000KT P6SM BKN250
KXNA 121726Z 1218/1318 16006KT P6SM SCT040 BKN100
TEMPO 1218/1222 VRB15G25KT 2SM -TSRA BKN040CB
FM130300 00000KT P6SM SCT040 BKN100 PROB30 1303/1309 5SM -TSRA BKN040CB
FM130900 00000KT 2SM BR BKN100
FM131500 17005KT P6SM SCT030

(Archived METAR and TAF's can be found here - AVIATION WEATHER CHARTS ARCHIVE)


Here is the arrival with diversion and wx -



(source - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...505Z/KORD/KXNA)



METAR for KXNA -

KXNA 121553Z 13003KT 9SM VCTS FEW038 29/24 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS SLP177
T02940239
KXNA 121614Z 24011G17KT 10SM TS BKN028 BKN039 27/19 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS
TSB10 T02670194
KXNA 121633Z 21018G23KT 1 1/4SM TSRA FEW013 BKN027 OVC050 23/20 A3010 RMK AO2
LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB30 TSB10 P0012 T02330200
KXNA 121636Z VRB06G23KT 3/4SM TSRA BR SCT017 BKN032 OVC055 22/20 A3011 RMK AO2
LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB30 TSB10 P0020 T02220200 RVRNO
KXNA 121647Z VRB06KT 2SM TSRA SCT026 BKN045 OVC110 23/20 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT
ALQDS RAB30 TSB10 P0027
KXNA 121653Z 06006KT 7SM -TSRA SCT027 BKN070 OVC100 22/20 A3012 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT
ALQDS RAB30 TSB10 SLP184 P0027 T02220200
KXNA 121738Z 27016G28KT 1 1/2SM TSRA BR SCT032 BKN041 OVC070 23/21 A3011 RMK AO2
PK WND 25028/1738 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSE19B20 P0014 T02280206
KXNA 121746Z 24016G30KT 1/2SM TSRA FG BKN014 BKN034 OVC042 22/21 A3015 RMK AO2
PK WND 27030/1739 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSE19B20 PRESRR P0045 T02220211 RVRNO
KXNA 121753Z 23009KT 1SM TSRA BR FEW015 BKN020 OVC035 22/21 A3017 RMK AO2 PK WND
27030/1739 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSE19B20 SLP201 P0064 60091 T02170206 10294 20217
53017 RVRNO




METAR for KFSM -

KFSM 121553Z 17006KT 10SM SCT028 BKN055 BKN085 29/22 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP180
T02890222
KFSM 121646Z 20013G21KT 10SM TS SCT023 SCT031 BKN048 28/23 A3009 RMK AO2 TSB46
T02830228
KFSM 121649Z 20017G24KT 2SM R25/2600VP6000FT -TSRA BKN023 BKN041 BKN055 27/23
A3009 RMK AO2 RAB48 TSB46 P0000
KFSM 121653Z 24018G24KT 1/2SM R25/2600VP6000FT TSRA FG FEW012 BKN023 BKN055
24/23 A3009 RMK AO2 RAB48 TSB46 SLP183 P0012 T02440228
KFSM 121658Z 27016G23KT 1/4SM R25/2600V4000FT TSRA FG BKN012 BKN023 OVC055 23/22
A3012 RMK AO2 PRESRR P0023 T02330217
KFSM 121706Z 31012KT 1/4SM R25/2000V5500FT TSRA FG BKN012 OVC023 22/21 A3011 RMK
AO2 WSHFT 1646 P0061 T02220211
KFSM 121714Z 29012KT 1/2SM R25/2000VP6000FT TSRA FG BKN016 BKN023 22/21 A3010
RMK AO2 WSHFT 1646 P0086 T02220211
KFSM 121722Z 28008KT 1 3/4SM TSRA BR BKN030 BKN047 OVC070 23/21 A3010 RMK AO2
WSHFT 1646 P0094 T02280211
KFSM 121730Z 30008KT 2 1/2SM R25/5500VP6000FT TSRA BR BKN034 BKN070 OVC090 23/21
A3010 RMK AO2 WSHFT 1646 P0099 T02280211
KFSM 121737Z 30008KT 7SM -TSRA FEW028 BKN070 OVC110 23/21 A3010 RMK AO2 WSHFT
1646 P0099 T02330211
KFSM 121753Z 31005KT 10SM -TSRA FEW090 BKN110 23/21 A3009 RMK AO2 WSHFT 1646
SLP183 P0100 60112 T02280211 10300 20222 53001
KFSM 121758Z 29007KT 10SM SCT110 23/21 A3008 RMK AO2 RAE56 TSE58 P0000 T02280211



METAR for KSGF -

KSGF 121552Z 00000KT 10SM FEW030 30/22 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP183 T03000217
KSGF 121652Z 18005KT 10SM FEW035 SCT042 BKN080 31/21 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP176
T03060206
KSGF 121752Z 17007KT 10SM SCT043 BKN055 31/21 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP178 T03060206
10322 20233 55007

METAR for RKR -
KRKR 121555Z AUTO 19008KT 10SM VCTS SCT025 SCT034 SCT065 27/23 A3009 RMK AO2 LTG
DSNT ALQS T02700227
KRKR 121615Z AUTO 23005KT 10SM TS SCT019 SCT032 BKN075 27/23 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG
DSNT ALQS T02670229
KRKR 121635Z AUTO 24007KT 10SM VCTS SCT019 SCT035 BKN110 26/22 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG
DSNT ALQS T02560217
KRKR 121655Z AUTO 23009KT 10SM SCT110 25/21 A3009 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQS
T02500209
KRKR 121715Z AUTO 25005KT 10SM CLR 25/21 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQS T02500206
KRKR 121735Z AUTO 26003KT 10SM CLR 25/20 A3009 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE THRU SE
T02520203
KRKR 121755Z AUTO 22003KT 10SM CLR 26/20 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE AND E
T02550204 10285 20237

minimwage4

Why did they get FSM? That's right in the middle of the weather. Bad dispatching.

Sliceback

For my flights that I've seen on flightaware the depicted weather is at the time of departure. So the flight path overlay on the depicted weather might not be accurate.