HighFlight

So let's compare oranges to oranges. Who do you think will perform better after the third OE flight? A military guy with 3,000 TT (zero 121 experience), or the C-172 CFI who has 1,000 TT (zero 121 experience)?

Storm01

No sensitivity here my man, don't mistake a willingness to have a lively "ready room" discussion as sensitivity. That, by the way is another "military thing", pretty thick skin and a penchant for controversial discussion. I can appreciate your point, it must be frustrating to be a civilian trained aviator and have to see another group of folks offered "perceived advantages". Let me add that almost unanimously, most military guys are aware of the lack of 121 experience and are seeking to start out in the regionals. I wouldn't be so bold as to think that I could do your job on day one, be it at a regional or mainline. What I do know is that a mil pilot WILL be able to do that job, based on previous training and experience in a very short time. You mention the mainline first day FO and being lost. I think your point is that a guy with regional experience wouldn't be that way in the same situation, I agree. However,take a civilian with no 121 experience, put him in the same place/time and it may be worse. A mainline carrier is willing to accept that based on knowing that the individual HAS the ability to rapidly adjust to the environment. Believe me, all the guys that I know that have gone mainline initially have the same story about the IOE period and how it was a "jailhouse experience", but they make it. My only point is that, like it or not......and I didn't make the rules/process......is that an individual with the training and experience offered by the mil has a quantifiable foundation of capability. It is what it is. For the record, by the time someone is offered an opportunity at a mainline outfit, having taken a turn in the regionals all is probably equal. I rarely ask if a guy is mil or civ......doesn't matter. Professionalism, capability, safety, people skills......all are traits that transcend initial background. Like MOST mil guys, I have decided to start out in the regionals, because I know that there is much to learn....I respect that and the job YOU do enough to make sure I have the right foundation to be the best that I can be. But I would never crap on a guy for heading straight to mainline. Good on him/her. I think the discussion went OCF for a bit, my apologies if I incited needless appendage measuring. I ran into a mil hater (FO that didn't know he was talking to a mil applicant) early in my interview experience and was a little taken by surprise and I guess it left an impression. But to dispel any myths, a military guy just chose a different path and he or she is just trying to swim upstream with the rest of the fish. In the end you will find that there aren't many differences, far more similarities.

N'er to speak of this again.......Good day to you Sir, fly safe!

stanthecaddy

Hey mods can we make a civilian vs military thread or "sticky" it so every other thread doesn't have to devolve into this drivel that we have to sift through to get relevant information.

Drum

Riddle me this batdude.....why did the Chief of Pilot hiring for one of the top 4 recently visit Travis AFB in CA on a recruiting drive?

Have you seen this at PSA?, AWAC? SKYW, Envoy, Endeavor etc. Like many have said here and other boards; mil guys/gals are KNOWN commodity. I still maintain that major airline new hires are dis-proportionally more civ, so I don't get what you are barking at.

So what if the ex mil get out and get hired right away by a major? Nothing written that says they have to do a touch-and-go with the regionals to get 121 stink on them prior to fleeting up to the majors. If you think that is wrong, your fight is with the hiring departments at the majors, not with the ex mil folks.

Yeah, we get it, you don't think it's fair. But life isn't fair, so get over it already.

Drum

CAirBear thru down the gauntlet, take up your issue there. I notice how these tangents are never started by an ex mil person....

Storm01

Target shacked......Drum onto secondary.......cleared hot.....

HighFlight

54 posts in 10 months. I doubt he spends enough time on APC to know that most threads are off topic by page 2 at the latest. (Which just means he has more of a life than many posters on here. )

Celeste

How is that an oranges to oranges comparison?

I'm not going to argue that military training isn't better than civilian.

However, mil guys are getting picked up with less than 2000 hours.... I've recently sat on several jumpseats at delta and southwest with 1500-1800 hour mil FOs. Meanwhile there's lots of captains with 8000+ hours that aren't getting the call.

You can't tell me that a regional pilot with 6000-7000 hours doing the same exact type of flying, into the same exact airports, trusted with the same paying customers as United, delta, etc, can't do as good of a job or *gasp* even better than these mil pilots getting picked up with 2000-3000 (and fewer) hours.

Bassman1985

Just gonna leave this here...

Date of accident: 14-SEP-2003 | F-16C Fighting Falcon | 87-0327| Pilot: Capt. Chris Stricklin, | Mountain Home AFB, ID,Gone West/F-16

Drum

Standard pifall you've fallen for regarding hours. A fighter guy/gal is lucky to get maybe 250 hours in a year. Most of our sorties are around 1.1 avg duration with maybe flying 3-4 times a week. So that 1500 to 1800 FO you saw probably has about 8+ years of high performance jet time under their belt. Mil heavy drivers will generally have more flight time in same timeframe given their longer sortie durations.

No one here is telling you anything Celeste, it is the airline hiring Dept that are speaking to you. Don't hate on the ex mil folks. They are there because there's obviously something the majors want from that sort of pilot.

If it were left to me, I would have all flying brought in-house to the majors where it belongs and scrap this whole "regional" concept, but we all know the story there don't we.